Alfred Sargent and useful contacts

[Guest]

RJMan contacted me to point out my hippocracy vis a vis Alfred Sargent, which I have been critical of after initially promoting them. I want to clarify my view.

I appear to own the most Alfred Sargents of anyone on the various fora, and I have purchased models from every level of Alfred Sargent quality. I am embarrassed to say I actually have thrown out four pairs, for different reasons. But I still like Sargent very much.

Before you think I am crazy, you have to realize that I accepted that in return for the low prices I have generally paid for my wardrobe, almost all of which I acquired in the space of two years with the help of the fora (most importantly London Lounge), that I would have to discard things that just did not work, or I would have an expensive pile of junk on my hands.

Why I discarded the shoes, which were almost new, is illustrative of Sargent's flaws. The first to go was a country style made of "Weathertuff" leather. Its problem was that it served no purpose. The leather is some corrected plastic-looking creation that is in fact very resistant. But its cost is that it is not elegant at all and I could not wear it to work. Not everyone might feel the same way: I saw a similar shoe at Peter Elliott.

The second was one of the Veldt shoes. Besides its being on a particularly inelegant last (I could have lived with it) it was exceptionally dangerous. I would always slip on its double leather sole, perhaps because its construction and leather were so stiff (which did not make it less comfortable). I have never had such a problem with any shoe and I am sure the same shoe would have been acceptable with the rubber sole. It was a less elegant version of the EG Dundee. Almost very manufacturer in Northampton except Lobb has this shoe in their range.

The third shoe I discarded was the Sargent wholecut, in brown. It was monstrously ugly and not particularly well finished. I got the EG Newbery, and a comparison is interesting. The Newbery is beautifully constructed on a much more elegant last. Its finish feels like it was slathered with butter. The AS version was dull and lifeless, and looked like a brown mound on my feet.

The fourth shoe was a loafer from the Classic line. Its leather was corrected grain and the shoe was useless to me, garrish and unbecoming.

How can I still be a fan of Sargent then?

Sargent's prices are a fraction of EG's or even CJ's. If you are selective, many of their models are excellent and you will not get much more from EG in certain materials like suede. I now have the Dartmouth (full brogued oxford in tan leather), the Melchbourne (cap toe derby in maroon with double sole), and the Quorn (branded Peal, a black grain chukka with Dainite sole). These are all excellent shoes. The Peal has the nicest leather (in my opinion) of any of the shoes I have ever bought. It was also my first wardrobe purchase since I joined the fora. They are all very inexpensive.

When I look at the AS line-up, there are models that I can easily say will be excellent because they are just variations of models I know (the Dartmouth comes in a variety of materials and AS's practice is to rename each). Others I know will be failures (almost all the Country shoes and all the Classic shoes). Others I cannot tell.

So, if you want to buy Sargent, you have to be very selective. Skip anything in the Classic or Country lines. Try to see the actual model or its variant at Brooks under the Peal label.

I am going to special order Sargent's new chasse model from its Premier line (its "Handgrade"), and I will pay a 40 pound up-charge to have the Dainite sole. Total cost: 167 pounds.

Here is a collection of contacts at the various manufacturers, from whom one can order shoes at rock-bottom prices:

for discount Lobb shoes Jean Lack j.lack@johnlobb.co.uk

for Edward Green shoes Suzie Jones susie@edwardgreen.com 44-160-462-6880 and sales@edwardgreen.com 44-207-839-0202

for Vass shoes Eva Vass vasseva@mail.datanet.hu 36-1318-2375 (Mondays only)

for Weston shoes Celine Froment courcelles@jmweston.fr 33-14-763-1813

for Carmina shoes Miguel Font miguel@carminashoemaker.com @ Carmina 331-4296-5408

for Alfred Sargent shoes NormaH@alfred-sargent.co.uk http://www.shoesnorthampton.co.uk/

[rjman]

Hippocracy? To paraphrase Michael Caine in The Bees, "But horses have always been our friends!"

Regrettably Suzie is leaving EG...

[Guest]

Don't worry RJ, I think you are a very nice horse.....

[Mark Seitelman]

Dr. B,

I personally feel that AS is a mixed bag and that Crockett is at a higher level. In other words, Crockettl's shoes are more consistent and better made and designed at both the handgrade level and its lesser make.

Since Green is in striking distance of $1,000 RTW, I am looking more favorably on Crockett.

Nonetheless, some of the AS shoes under the Peale label at Brooks look pretty good. I have one pair.

What are your sources for AS?

Also, does John Lobb London sell RTW shoes? Or is that contact for John Lobb Paris (Hermes)?

[Guest]

Those are John Lobb Paris RTW, in Northampton. EG's are not nearly that expensive, everyone I got direct was less than $850. But I agree with you, the CJ Handgrades are slightly nicer than the AS Premier, but as a brand, the CJ's seem to be more consistent throughout their range.