Vass RTW Shoes

[SouthPender]

It would be interesting to see the general perception of London Lounge members regarding Vass RTW shoes. They have been recently described in great detail by Jcusey on the Ask Andy forum, and have been discussed on other forums as well, including a newly-established one, on which the forum owner essentially trashed them.

One consensus seems to be that, although very well made, the original shoes represented styles that are typically middle-European and, if anything, quite bulky and somewhat inelegant (although many like that style). This would probably be truest for those made on the same last as the Budapester, with a high toe box and overall large scale. If we consider the newer models made on the U-last, however, it would seem that this perception of inelegance no longer holds, although some may find them somewhat rakish (perhaps overstylized would be a more appropriate word). These are seen in the Contemporary collection. (The link is given below. Once you've clicked on the link, go to "The shoes" and then click on "Contemporary," for the U-last shoes. Touching each shoe there with the cursor brings up a larger picture of it. Shoes on other lasts are seen in the "Classics" collection.)

What are your opinions of these shoes? In a group of forumers steeped in the tradition of fine British shoes, how would you evaluate these U-last Vass shoes in terms of style. In this respect, how do they compare with EG and JLobb RTW shoes? Do you find the esthetic notably different from that of the sleeker current EG and JLobb styles?

http://www.vass-shoes.com/menu.htm

[Will]

I don't own a pair but had semi-brogues on my feet that were very obviously better detailed than the Edward Greens I wore into the store. There is at least one last - the name escapes me - that is neither rakish nor inelegant.

[dopey]

I don't own a pair but had semi-brogues on my feet that were very obviously better detailed than the Edward Greens I wore into the store. There is at least one last - the name escapes me - that is neither rakish nor inelegant.

I think you mean the P2, which is an approximation of an English round-toe last but with higher side walls near the toe.

As for the original question, I have found Vass to be the best made RTW shoes I have owned, ahead of Grenson Masterpieces, Weston and Edward Green. Perhaps some of the highest end Italian brands are their equal but I don't any of those. Styling is a matter of taste. I am happy with the P2 shape for town shoes and might like the F. The U is too stylized for my taste. What I really wish is that the Budapest last would fit me as I would love a pair of Budapests on that last or perhaps their Norwegers. Unfortunately, the Budapest last and my orthotics are a bad match.

[SouthPender]

Dopey, can you describe the waist treatment (not to be confused with waste treatment) on your shoes on the P2 last? Is the waist quite suppressed? Is there any beveling of the sole at the waist to produce perhaps a subdued fiddleback effect?

[BenedictSpinola]

There is certainly no doubt that Vass' shoes are very well made indeed. The attention to detail is exceptional. They are every bit as good - and in most respects better - than the JL prestige line (which I consider to be the best made English RTW shoe). The only point in which they might be inferior to a top-end English shoe is in the sole stitching (fewer per inch). I might also add that their take on the bevelled fiddle back waist isn't quite as elegant as the JL bootmaker sole.

It is true that many of the lasts are rather individual in their appearance, but most gentlemen would be hard pressed to find one that did not suit his tastes. I have a couple of custom shoes made on a modified U last. You need only stroll along the Royal Arcade to discover from whence the inspiration for this last comes. I have yet to see shoes made on the F last. There are many other lasts from which to choose, not all of which are as sturdy looking as the Budapest last (e.g. the R last).

Finally, I am well aware of the derogatory comments about Vass shoes to which you allude. They - like the person who made them - are to be safely ignored by anyone of sound mind and taste.

[dopey]

Dopey, can you describe the waist treatment (not to be confused with waste treatment) on your shoes on the P2 last? Is the waist quite suppressed? Is there any beveling of the sole at the waist to produce perhaps a subdued fiddleback effect?

I ordered my P2 lasted shoes with a bevelled waist, which is available for an upcharge but is not standard. The standard finish comes with a squared off edge. On my shoes, the welt is cut closer to the stitching at the waist than elsewhere on the shoe and is also beveled on both sides. I have never examined Lobb's Prestige line, but the effect is more or less the same as is done by Edward Green. The sole is slightly thicker than on EGreens, so the beveling is more pronounced even if the sole is a tad less elegant. In any event, you will NOT mistake them for the fiddleback waist on a pair of English bespoke shoes.

To give you an idea of what the shoes look like, here are some pictures of my shoes as taken by Gabor Halmos.

[AlexanderKabbaz]

They - like the person who made them - are to be safely ignored by anyone of sound mind and taste.

Hear, hear. I find myself astonished - and a bit sad - when I see friends make innocent attempts to bring worth to the incessant trolling from one sock puppet to the next. Enough said.

I have now spent almost six days of my life, courtesy of Gabor at C.S.E., living with every imaginable Vass shoe made ... a couple of which have somehow landed in my closet. Frankly, there is no temptation to go elsewhere. Personally, I like the 'different' styling. Most amazing to me is the strength vs. lightness. I've compared them only with EG and Lobb Paris, but they feel lighter and stronger. I know ... Kabbaz, shut up and go back to shirts.

[manicturncoat]

The derogatory comments made about the styling of the Vass shoes betray a provincialism which is only to be expected.
I was recently in Vienna and I visited the very elegant store of Ludwig Reiter whose traditional styles seemed very similar to those of Vass, and having no first knowledge of Vass shoes, I was wondering how they compare in terms of quality?

[AlexanderKabbaz]

The derogatory comments made about the styling of the Vass shoes betray a provincialism which is only to be expected.

Sadly, provincialism is not the reason. Gabor and his wonderful Vass shoes have become somewhat associated with me through their participation in the two Sartorial Excellence events. There is an overwhelming enmity between the owner of the new forum and I - among others, for which Vass is thus paying a portion of the price. There is no factual basis, be it provinciality or any other, for the defamatory statements he has written about Vass shoes.

[tteplitzmd]

As the owner of the scotch grain Norweigan Vass in the shoe PJ, I think it demonstrates the wide range of the styles. The range shown in the Budapest shop where I was measured is larger than the catalog or website suggests. Those in NYC should take a look at Bergdoff's where there are at 5 or 6 models still on display (the inventory has been substantially sold out which speaks for itself). There is no substitute for handling and wearing the shoes.With Vass you are getting a shoe of known provenance, which is not always the case with the (English) competitors. The company is small enough to provide a level of personal service so often lacking in the luxury goods market.

[SouthPender]

Dopey, those are just a terrific pair of shoes. They appear to be examples of what's described on the Vass website (under Classic shoes) as the "Wholecut Medallion P2 Last," which are shown there in black or a very dark green. Are yours in the Antic Cognac color (which I hope means antique, and not prank!)? A couple of questions: (1) Did you ask to have the eyelets taper from front to back in the distance between them--a common enough style feature on many English shoes, but not shown on the same shoe (I assume) on the website? (2) If I may, what was the upcharge for the extra work you had done on the waist? Well worth it in my opinion.

Alex: I don't really think there'll be any appreciable price paid by Vass for this person's commentary, do you? I mean, how much influence is it likely to have? I mentioned it only to indicate that opinion is widely varied on these shoes.

[edhayes]

I find Vass shoes to be very well made, I like the budapester style because its different(its also very comfortable)and I think that middle europe has a refinement and sophistication that I admire
the lasts run a wide range of looks to fit every taste, the London Lounge is a select group but some of the other forums have real screamers that contribute to them.
Lastly, Gabor is a gentleman with excellent taste and I like dealing with him

[dopey]

Dopey, those are just a terrific pair of shoes. They appear to be examples of what's described on the Vass website (under Classic shoes) as the "Wholecut Medallion P2 Last," which are shown there in black or a very dark green. Are yours in the Antic Cognac color (which I hope means antique, and not prank!)? A couple of questions: (1) Did you ask to have the eyelets taper from front to back in the distance between them--a common enough style feature on many English shoes, but not shown on the same shoe (I assume) on the website? (2) If I may, what was the upcharge for the extra work you had done on the waist? Well worth it in my opinion.

Alex: I don't really think there'll be any appreciable price paid by Vass for this person's commentary, do you? I mean, how much influence is it likely to have? I mentioned it only to indicate that opinion is widely varied on these shoes.

Mine are in the Antique Cognac, but there are two different leathers with that title in the swatch books I saw and the colors are different. The eyelets are done that way as a default on that model. I don't remember the upcharge, but as the shoes were ordered during the first Haberdasher's Woodstock as a special order, I have no idea how you would even go about placing such an order today. Please check with Gabor. Perhaps someone who was at the farm this year could tell you the pricing.

[Richard3]

I was recently in Vienna and I visited the very elegant store of Ludwig Reiter whose traditional styles seemed very similar to those of Vass, and having no first knowledge of Vass shoes, I was wondering how they compare in terms of quality?

Coincidentally I am wearing a pair of Reiters right now. In terms of lasts are also styled in the Austrian-Hungarian tradition but - as far as I know - they are basically machine-made shoes and so can`t be compared to Vass. I`d say they paly in the AE/Church`s cutom grade league. The ones I wear right now are about 4 years old but have never become really comfortable (and probably never will ). The AAAC topic also raised my interest in Vass shoes and they`ll defintely be my next pair to buy. Reasearching on the Internet I found a German seller who also delivers to the US. They only have a few pairs on their website but they told me they could deliver any model on any last:

Just click "KONTAKT" if you want further information:

http://www.budapester-schuhe.de/index.p ... ee&PAGE=17

[manicturncoat]

Richard3,
Thank you for the explanation and the link. I am very tempted to try one the Budapest style shoes. I was wondering if anyone knew if the stitching along the welt that one finds in some of the more outrageous confections, particularly in Italy, find their origins in these more noble Budapest shoes.