Separate trouser and coat makers

[Cantabrigian]

Does anyone have his suits made this way?

I imagine that it would entail having to source all of the cloth yourself - which seems like it could either be a hassle or lead to sub-optimal results. And I could pretty easily forsee both makers being less-than-thrilled with what they will likely perceive the situation to be.

But has anyone found that this is the only way to get exactly what you want. Or perhaps a way to make things more cost-favorable since some makers seem to charge a very hefty amount for (US) pants.

[manton]

I have been tempted many times. There is one tailor in New York who cuts the best trousers I have ever seen. They look like AA illustrations. Perfect taper, knife-like front AND back creases. Unfortunately, the one coat he made for me did not turn out as well. However, this may be an abberation, as I have seen his stuff on others, and it looks great.

In any case, 1) He charges a fortune for odd trousers; and 2) I really doubt that he would accept such an arrangement. Also, I can't think of a tailor who would make just the coat and not the trousers. Well, Frank might. But his trousers are so close that it's not worth it.

[TVD]

At one stage, I was severely tempted.

It took two pairs in Savile Row until the cut was right. They like them loose in the seat and narrow in the leg, I prefer the Continental style of loose legs and snug seat. On the other hand, I have an impossibly uphill struggle to persuade my Prague tailors to cut them a bit shorter, because they love the trouser leg to touch your heel at the back. Ouch.

But with a little bit of effort all is well now. Genuinely, a good tailor will make good trousers of any cut, but sometimes it takes patience and persuasion. Once they see that the style you prefer suits you and makes their work look good, all will be well.

The real problem with trousers are inconstant clients who flit and sip and bespeak clothes from a different tailor each time. Trousers repay constancy and repeat custom.

[manton]

The real problem with trousers are inconstant clients who flit and sip and bespeak clothes from a different tailor each time. Trousers repay constancy and repeat custom.

I don't think so. The real problem with trousers is that they are hard to cut. People think they are just straight-hanging tubes, so what's the problem? The problems are numerous. Hips, bones, and other parts of the anatomy get in the way and disrupt the line. The rear creases in particular are very hard to get straight. I have had one tailor get them right on the first try. Others have not been able to fully straighten them out even on the third try.

[Huzir]

I do have different makers for coats and trousers - not because I am extraordinarily fussy but because one tailor makes wonderful trousers but occasionally unfortunate coats, while one makes excellent coats but very average trousers.

I'm still looking for someone who can do both very well!

[uppercase]

Trousers can be an afterthought to many tailors, whose pride and reputation rest in the cut of their coats, not their trousers.

In any case, trousers are often outsourced by tailoring houses to specialist trouser makers. So your trouser results will only be as good as the particular out-house tailor who happens to be assigned to make up your trousers.


Alden mentions such a specialist, a CAP member - Antonio Ambrosi in Naples - who apparently only does trousers and indeed makes trousers for many of the established Neopolitan houses. Now, if one can only get to Naples and once there, find via Giovanni Nicolterra in the Spanish Quarter......

I would indeed be very tempted to visit trouser specialist.

The best trousers that I have had made - got it right on the first try was Steven Hitchcock's trouser maker; high rise, comfortable and roomy in the crotch, lean across the hips, no ripples or waves anywhere and reasonably straight creases, back and front, rests on the waist comfortably but firmily, no need for a belt. Ofcourse, the trouser maker is in the background - he doesn't attend fittings, he has no name, the total suit is a Steven Hitchcock creation and I assume cut by Steven, but the trouser maker is definitely there, an unsung presence.

I've found that trousers typically cost 1/4 of a suit's cost; so one can see where a tailor's time, attention and labor is allocated. And it's probably fair to say that this is where a client allocates his attention to a bespoke suit.

Making well fitted trousers is indeed an underappreciated art; this is probably the fault of the client who often gives short shrift to trousers, with most of their attention focused on getting the details of the coat right on.

And who can blame the client as getting a coat spot on can be a monumental, highly detailed, time consuming dialogue with little time left to go through the same intense scrutiny for the trousers.

If one's interpretation of a brilliant trouser fit is ala the 30s with straight creases back and front and hanging impeccably, then fabric selection is critical to achieve this look. I have found no better material than mid-weight gabardine which, when properly cut, can achieve this silhouette. A wool gab is a perfect material and weave to achieve such trousers.

I would not hestitate to go seperate tailors for trouser and coat, particularlly when commissioning odd coats and trousers.

Finding a tailor equally skilled in making your ideal coat AND trousers is indeed rare.



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[Cantabrigian]

Thank you all for your thoughts. At least at the beginning it probably makes more sense to just have one tailor make everything.

Manton, if you don't mind my asking, who makes the pants you referenced? Sounds intriguing - at least for some odd trousers if you think he'd do just that.

[smoothjazzone]

Nicolosi makes the best trousers of anyone I have seen -- he does charge a fortune for odd trousers though

[Cantabrigian]

Perhaps this is due to the fact that I don't yet really understand the subtleties involved in fitting pants, but I consider bespoke pants to be rather pricey, at least relative to coats.

I’ve found that even with MTM, I can get a fit that I am rather pleased with as well as all of the options I would want – e.g. single reverse pleats, non-flapped change pocket, etc. And the more I’ve seen of Oxxford pants, the more impressed I am.

My idea therefore was to have the two sets of trousers made at Oxxford, and at the same time purchase the – probably Holland and Sherry – cloth for the jacket. Then take the cloth to a (likely London-based) tailor to have the jacket made.

That would yield a suit that I’d be very happy with, obtained at a bit of a discount to normal Savile Row prices. But it would probably also yield a rather unhappy tailor – if they agreed to do it at all…

[Chris Rimby]

I guess some cloths would give away the fact that you were attempting to construct a whole suit using two different tailors. There aren't too many dark navy pinstripe sportcoats. Yet others, like tan tweed, could be made into a sportcoat or a suit. You could always just tell your tailor you wanted a sportcoat made in a particular fabric. Then have the trousers made wherever you want. I doubt he would question you at all.

One thing to note though... I haven't noticed any CMT prices on Mahon's website. So this obviously wouldn't work with if he requires you to source the cloth through him. Then again maybe he does do it...you may just have to inquire.

[Mark Seitelman]

Perhaps this is due to the fact that I don't yet really understand the subtleties involved in fitting pants, but I consider bespoke pants to be rather pricey, at least relative to coats.

I’ve found that even with MTM, I can get a fit that I am rather pleased with as well as all of the options I would want – e.g. single reverse pleats, non-flapped change pocket, etc. And the more I’ve seen of Oxxford pants, the more impressed I am.

My idea therefore was to have the two sets of trousers made at Oxxford, and at the same time purchase the – probably Holland and Sherry – cloth for the jacket. Then take the cloth to a (likely London-based) tailor to have the jacket made.

That would yield a suit that I’d be very happy with, obtained at a bit of a discount to normal Savile Row prices. But it would probably also yield a rather unhappy tailor – if they agreed to do it at all…

If you were to do the separate makers thing, be sure that you purchase more than enough cloth, and have everything cut from the same piece. In other words, don't order H & S cloth # 1010 from the pantsmaker and the same cloth number from the coatmaker. There is the danger that there will be a difference in the dye lot in that the cloth will be cut from two different pieces. Buy the cloth in one lot, and parcel it out to the respective makers so that the cloth matches perfectly.

There are some tailors who will reject this arrangement out of hand. However, there are others who will do it. After all, work is work, and a customer who gets in the door can become a lifetime one and source of referrals.

I personally feel that it is more trouble than it's worth.

[Cantabrigian]

I've come to feel the same way, Mark, as I've considered it more.

The more I've thought about it the more it seems logical that the jacket and trousers should be developed in tandem so that they will work together as well as possible.

I suppose an obvious exception is odd jackets and trousers - but since those jackets tend to be slightly fuller (at least the ones worn around this time of year) that isn't so much of an issue.