Jermyn St the peking order of shirtmakers

[charles]

do loungers agree with this ranking order (best first)
Turnbull and Asser
Budd (OK so its in the arcade)
New and Lingwood
Hilditch and Key
Harvie and Hudson
Charles Tyrwhitt
Pinks
Lewins

[Cantabrigian]

Are you asking about ready-to-wear or bespoke?

[leiter]

Has anyone any experience with Robert Whittaker of Dege bespoke?

[AlexanderKabbaz]

If you are talking about public pereption of long-gone image, perhaps. If you seek good shirts you might rather speak with Dege or Udeshi or, even better, hop over to Paris and visit Charvet.

[Concordia]

Dege is my regular supplier and they are very good, with only a few qualifications. Prices are very fair. Got a whole batch of nice 120s poplins just yesterday that after their 7-for-6 discount were priced at $205 each. Before duty and shipping, of course. Whittaker is very well spoken of by many of the tailors on the Row, including some who have their own in-house label.

I tried to get something going with T&A so that I might diversify. (I also like their fabrics). After three utter failures at a sample shirt, I got a nice letter from their Chief Financial Officer suggesting that I might be happier at another firm. Full refund-- no complaints there. I have no idea if my experience is typical. The samples were very well made, BTW, and had nice-looking collars.

No recent direct experience with any other shop.

I'd be interested to know if anyone here has used Harvie & Hudson, as they are one of the few to come to Boston.

[rjman]

AFAIK the best bespoke london shirtmakers haven't been on Jermyn St in decades.

The RTW ranking should go (best to worst)

H&K by a nose -- consistently good pattern matching, excellent cloth and construction
T&A -- best buttons of the lot, no pattern matching, excellent cloth, sometimes double-needle seams
Budd -- all around excellent, nice collar, sentimental value
N&L/H&H -- N&L buttons are thin shards... H&H I have but haven't yet worn, but buttons and fabric appear inferior to H&K. Both are good shirts, mind you.
Lewin
Tyrwhitt, Pink
Hawes & Curtis, Haines & Bonner

The last five makers named are all third-world-manufacturing mass marketers. Tyrwhitt and Lewin are good value for money among them. Several of these last five have historical names, but their current merchandise is high-street material.

Of all of the above, the only shirtmaker currently making all its RTW in the UK is T&A. H&K (and N&L and H&H) will do so for retailers who specify it (as I believe Saks, Ben Silver and Best of British Shirts do) but otherwise some of their shirts may be made in Italy, Portugal, Germany or, if rumor is correct, Pakistan. N&L and H&H have the same rumors about.

For bespoke, Robert Whitaker at Dege carries on the tradition lost when N&L shut down Bowring Arundel (now the latter is only a name and now that Bertie Mason is no longer at H&K). The fellow at Dunhill (David Gale) is also supposed to be good but is rather more expensive.

The Jermyn St houses all fudge the line when asked if they provide true bespoke or MTM. I have no personal experience with British bespoke shirtmakers BTW...

[charles]

thank you..you all echo my own impressions of patchy quality- I'll definitely try Dege..if only their ready to wear collection..their website looks very attractive..almost reassuringly old-fashioned.

[Cantabrigian]

I'd be interested to know if anyone here has used Harvie & Hudson, as they are one of the few to come to Boston.

In an e-mail exchange I have just had with Richard Harvie to schedule a fitting during his US visit next week, I invited him to have a look at the forum. I don't know how much time he spends in front of a computer so in the meantime, I'll offer a few observations:

I am still in the fitting process - have had two sample shirts thus far and within another one to three, I imagine my pattern will be as good as it can be without my knowing better what I want. I imagine that I will ask for incremental revisions in subsequent orders as I refine my idea of how a shirt should ideally fit.

Service
For me, one of the most important things is how easy the salesman and cutter are to work with. Richard Harvie is a true gentleman and I have found the cutters to be similarly amiable. Not all of the salesmen are the most attentive but if you deal with Richard, you will be treated very well.

Quality
The quality is good. There have been two things that I have noticed that I hope will be better on the final shirts - namely somewhat sloppy stitches on one of the places where the cuffs are connected to the sleeve and unshanked buttons. I will cordially mention those things and I imagine there won't be a problem in correcting them.

I have not run into the question of pattern matching yet. That is something which I consider to be very important and will be interested to see how well they execute that.

Fabric selection
Is good so far as I can tell. Personally I'm not too into super high numbers so I am not very qualified to comment on that. Each season, they have some limited editions - usually in loudish stripe patterns. I don't care for many of them but some are nice and, I am lead to believe, not available elsewhere.

Fittings
Per Jermyn Street tradition (so far as I can tell), measurements are taken and then the process of sample shirts - made from shirting - begins. I have never been given any sort of limit as to the number of fittings that will be done, though one salesman did seem a but perturbed when I came back with comments and he realized that the sample would have to be completely redone. After that, I e-mailed Richard and he assured me that there was no problem.

That said, I get the sense that they will not go through 20 or probably even 10 samples a la Kabbaz (but for a third of the price, that is understandable).

Flexibility
Something that is often mentioned is that the Jermyn Street makers provide a MTM, rather than bespoke service. In my experience, there has been no limit to what can be done either in terms of fit or styling. How they have arrived at my pattern is of no real interest to me seeing as how I have not felt that the ultimate result is constrained in any way.

I will ask Richard next weekend how exactly the patterns are made.


I think that the service represents a very good value. They are more expensive than most of their immediate neighbors but with a minimum order of only 4 rather than 6, that is somewhat offset.

They travel to the States frequently which is convenient. And have thusfar, given me no reson to look elsewhere. Once a shirt is completed, I will post pictures.

[Concordia]

I now realize (somewhat to my embarrassment, for not noticing earlier) that the Dege shirt buttons are not shanked either. Not sure if this is a realistic request given pricing, or if that's just how they do them. In any case, I have never had a button fall off or be hard to use, and some shirts have been around for 10 years or more.
There have also been minor irregularities in stitching from time to time, but the cut, feel of the collar, and fabric selection (not comprehensive but well-chosen) have more than made up for them.

What is H&H's export starting price, if I may ask?

[whittaker]

Thus far, I've not strayed beyond Jermyn Street. Next time I will try Dege so I can make an effective comparison.

T&A have been highly accommodating. With negative commentary about Jermyn Street shirt-makers in vogue, I was nervous. However T&A showed no qualms in replacing my sample shirt. Whether the service is genuinely bespoke or not I am not sufficiently experienced to comment but all my requirements have been satisfied, which included shanked and thicker than average buttons that Charvet has taught me to love.

I've also been working on some shirts with Emma Willis. They have some lovely fabrics but I am yet to witness the end product. Certainly they were much less willing than T&A to completely remake the sample shirt.

[Cantabrigian]

They start at 155. Sea Island is obviously a bit more - being a 'prefer looking pressed to feeling decacent guy' I've yet to try such a fabric and consequently have no idea what the starting price is.

How often does Dege run that 7-for-6 deal? Sounds like a really excellent value.

What is H&H's export starting price, if I may ask?

[Concordia]

They run promotions of some kind from time to time, although it might have been a few years since they've specifically discounted shirts this way, if they ever did.

Export price for these is normally GBP 137.

[Cantabrigian]

Sorry - I should note that the 155 includes VAT but not US customs duty. I have not been charged for shipping - not sure if that applies to the full order or just sample shirts.

[AlexanderKabbaz]

I tried to get something going with T&A so that I might diversify. (I also like their fabrics). After three utter failures at a sample shirt, I got a nice letter from their Chief Financial Officer suggesting that I might be happier at another firm.

That about sums it up. You reached the financial break even line and that would have made a less stellar quarterly report. Worry not! That the stripes don't match. It is more important to insure the proper "beat last year" graph.

Reflect on that for a moment if you would. One of the oldest, most venerable British bespoke firms. One which for years carried the HRH warrant. Disgusting.

[cscottmax]

i've always felt that harvie and hudson should be rated higher than fourth or fifth or lower. the quality of their materials and shirts on offer, and the level of service easily put them in the top three.