Vests with a DB suit?

[smoothjazzone]

Gentlemen:

I am in the process of getting a DB suit with brace trousers. I do not like my braces to show and in the office environment I will nearly always be taking the jacket off while inside. Should I get a vest with this suit -- its a winter flannel -- and if so what style of vest (SB, DB, w/ or w/o lapels, etc.) will be appropriate?

I look forward to reading your responses.

[manton]

If you must have a vest with a DB suit -- which I don't recommend, all things being equal -- than I strongly recommend a plain SB vest: six buttons (five to button), four welt pockets, no lapels.

[BenedictSpinola]

Funnily enough, I've heard a few people argue over this point at Cambridge. I would veer away from a waistcoat with a double-breasted suit coat. However, if I had to wear a waistcoat with such a suit coat, I would certainly opt for a double-breasted one with lapels.

One seldom sees double-breasted waistcoats in the UK, except when worn with morning dress. The last one I saw (worn with a single breasted grey town suit) was sported by a gentleman in his seventies. I must admit that he did cut a dash in Cambridge Market Square.

[Mark Seitelman]

I vote for a SB vest as described by Manton.

I feel that a DB vest with lapels or a SB one with lapels would be too showy with a DB coat. Also, these vest would give added bulk under a coat which already has added bulk.

BTW, my last suit was a DB with a traditional vest which turned-out fine. I wanted to try it since such was common during the golden age of the 1930's. It makes opening your DB coat acceptable.

Good luck.

[Concordia]

Are you dressing down for reasons of temperature or formality? In either case, I would say that vest defeats the purpose, especially when you get the jacket back on. How about keeping a sleeveless sweater (or even a Marino V-neck) around the office to throw on over your braces? Sort of a Mr. Rogers touch.

[cuffthis]

I often keep sweater vests in my office to cover over my braces. I prefer simple V-necks in cotton lisle, merino wool or cashmere.

[alden]

You've had some excellent reponses to your question. It is clearly a demonstration of good taste to want to hide one's braces as opposed to the hyper Troggie trend of the 80s to show them (especially bright red ones) to the world.

As you know, I always preferred to keep a unlined Neapolitan like SB in my office to slip on when I removed my coat. Others have suggested jumpers or sweater vests as well.

If you decide to go forward with a vest, here are a few things to think about. Let the pattern of the cloth dictate the styling you employ.

A strong, complicated pattern would necessarily call for the most elemental and simple styling. A plain or more simple pattern permits a bit more leeway in styling.

So, for example, a Prince of Wales check in a DB waistcoat would appear overwrought and very Charlie. But, as in Mr. Spinola's description of the elderly gent, a plain patterned DB waistcoat might be very smart.

What we are always looking for in dressing is balance. The simple styling balances a strong pattern. A more emotive style can balance a simple and understated one.

[Guest]

Well, this is an excellent suggestion. Anyway, it looks odd to me a vest with a DB, though I really miss it, as I always love to dress vests.

I do not like to show braces at the office, too. So maybe the blazer option is the better one?

Giona.

[nick]

Dear smoothjazzone,

Esky #21, posted by the estimable Tutee in the Photojournal, has the look to which you should aspire:

http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/gallery/E ... _suit_copy

Flusser published this illustration in Clothes & the Man. It's been over a decade since I last read it, but I recall that he wrote that vests with DBs were the norm until WW2, when the vests were discontinued because of wartime cloth exigencies.

Go for it!

Regards.

[dopey]

The suit I am having made by Raphael is a DB. I ordered it with a peaked lapel vest. The fabric is a navy herringbone 12/13oz from H&W/Minnis. I understand Manton’s reasons for suggesting no lapels on the vest. He may be right in principle, but I am unable to comfortably wear a vest that doesn’t have lapels. A vest without lapels seems unfinished to me - it needs a border. This is, at best, a minority view, but it is mine. To demonstrate that I am not beyond listening to reason, I note that I did consent to four welt pockets instead of my usual flap pockets. I see no point to the top pockets on a vest, but i don’t object to them.

[manton]

Nick: other sources (I think a bit more reliable on this than Flusser) claim that before WW2, nearly all SB suits came with vests, and less than half of DBs did. After WW2 it was more like 1/4 and none.

Dopey: I just think that minimalist vests look better with DB suits. Otherwise the look is too "busy" to my eye. I must admit, too, that I don't like peaked lapels on a vest, and certainly not on an SB vest. There is not enough "wrap", and the lapels are too short, to achieve the nice angle that the peaks seem to need.

As to top pockets, they are traditionally a bit narrower and deeper, for glasses and pens, whereas the bottom pockets are wider and shallower, for watches and other things (cigar cutters, whatever).

[dopey]

Manton:
I think we agree that lapels on vests are an aesthetic issue and disagree on what we prefer.

I think there are non-aesthetic grounds for going lapel-less on a DB suit vest as you should want to minimize bulk and you already have the lapel wrap on the coat to contend with. I ignore this issue in favor of my own aesthetic tics, but others should at least consider it.

Thanks for the information on vest top pockets, Manton. Several of the vests I have from Dege have lower flap pockets and welt top pockets. I have never stuck so much as a finger in the top pockets so I don’t know their depth. They could be sham pockets or sewn shut and I wouldn’t know. I suppose I will have to check now.

Mark: Vest or not, keep your DB coat buttoned. I think a vest does give you license to open a SB coat, but a DB coat will hang oddly when opened. If you want it opened, take it off and leave it open on the hangar

[manton]

I think there are non-aesthetic grounds for going lapel-less on a DB suit vest as you should want to minimize bulk and you already have the lapel wrap on the coat to contend with.

Hadn't thought of that. Good point.

[nick]

Manton:

Your figures on the historical prevalence of the vest seem much more reasonable than those of my stale, unrefreshed recollection of the statistics from a dubious source.

Regards.

[Mark Seitelman]

Dopey,

I would tend to agree that a DB coat should be kept buttoned.

However, a vest allows you the freedom to occasionally go unbuttoned especially in the harried atmosphere of an office where you might be jumping up and down from standing to sitting. I recall some of the greats in flims having the coat unbuttoned. However, I agree that a buttoned coat is preferable when standing.

BTW, I recently met Spence Hays, the owner of Oxxford Clothes. He was wearing a DB with a SB, traditional vest.

Cheers.