The London Lounge

Dear members,

Here the 3rd series of AA/Esky illustrations. This edition of the series got delayed several times for various reasons. In addition to these pictures below, I have posted a few more in two other threads. See them at your leisure.

This time I thought (since its almost summer time) it would be nice to tackle a few issues regarding formal wear. There are usually some formal events that one has to attended during the summer…so it would be nice to cover some ground in this aspect.

I will start with formal evening wear. Since there is not much point in discussing the good’ol usual black-tie…I thought of the bringing up the white dinner jacket.

Here is the first one from spring / summer of 34’.

The one on the left is the DB (4 button show) shawl lapel version & the one the right is an SB with a single (link) button.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 2 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

On your left & right both of these jackets are recommended in Palm beach cloth, Linen, Silk & even white cotton. Worn here correctly with tropical worsted dress trousers in either Black or Mid-night blue, complete with formal pumps. Shirt is soft collared & has a soft body. Marcella sounds like a very good option here if such is your style.

Now to details. Note the fact that the DB version has the lapel rolled to bottom button. Other versions may be cut such that both buttons can be fastened. However, this later design is somewhat rare. Lapels in either case (whether SB or DB) are much preferred to have self facings (i.e. of the same fabric). The decades following the 30s…saw a certain increase in the popularity of silk faced lapels for dinner jackets…however, this practice was rarely observed in the best-circles.

On the topic of bow-ties…usually a much slimmer shaped (batwing / thistle) is preferred for the white dinner jackets. Color of the bow-tie was almost always black.

Note the introduction of color in the illustration above through a maroon colored carnation on DB & Blue cornflower on the SB jacket (right). It is recommended that deep or dark red has a “smart” edge over the usual scarlet carnation, and was often spotted (maroon) on smart dressers. Note the length of the trousers and carefully observe the shape of the DB & SB lapel. Much more rounded and bellied than elongated (vertically) as seen most often today.

Now lets discuss the color of these dinner jackets. Most certainly the best preferred color is the off-white / cream, ivory, or maybe bone. Pure white, while perfectly correct, never quite carries the same flair as the magnificent shades mentioned above. However, there is one more color now long forgotten by manufacturers and the buyers…i.e. the Burma Shade. This was a genuine British invention, often worn by Englishmen posted in warm colonies…particularly South East Asia & Bahamas. This shade is close to the “natural” shade of linen and is certainly considered less formal then either white or its off-white counterparts.

Here is a picture of a dinner jacket in Burma shade. To best view this picture kindly move about 5-7 feet away from the (average sized) computer screen (14-16 inches)…more if your screen is larger.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 3 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

Noteworthy here are the self faced lapels and the absence of a buttonhole at the lapel…though it is correct to wear a boutonniere with it.

This brings us to another interesting note of the “use of color” in formal wear. The first thing comes to mind is the often debated use of Red colored accessories with white jacket….most note worthy the bow-tie & cummerbund.

Let me tell you that while color was permissible under certain circumstances, it was never “highly” recommended with the exception of a red carnation as mentioned above. Red cummerbunds were often observed and suggested but almost Never…red bow-ties. Another recommended cummerbund instead of red was the India-madras one, which was exclusively reserved for the Burma shade of dinner jackets. These (madras) cummerbunds usually had yellow, brownish motif which went quite well with the natural shade of the jacket (even though the jacket was to be remained buttoned all the time*).

That was then. Today, you may certainly use a red bow-tie if you like. Yes, there I said it. There are far more worse sartorial crimes you can commit then wearing a mere red bowtie. However, I will highly urge as not to match it with your cummerbund. There is something very eerie about that…at least to me (with the exception of basic black color). If you must wear a red bow-tie make sure it is deep red and not scarlet red and certainly gentlemen of good taste should know….as not to match the red bow-tie with a red pocket square. Always remember the underlying principle behind all this. The presence of color in formalwear, almost always make it somewhat less formal than more. The further you drift from this (black & white) scheme the less formal the ensemble will be (at least in most cases).

• There lies a strange notion that evolved in the decades following 20-30s that SB dinner jackets must be worn unbuttoned and that DB 6x2 or 4x2 (mostly white ones) style should have the top one fastened and bottom one left un-done like DB lounge jackets. Actually I have no idea where it came from. Needless to say it is NOT incorrect to wear a buttoned dinner jacket, in fact if it is DB than you must have it buttoned all the time. If its SB then its up to you but know that either way is correct.

Of course over here again you have to understand the principle underlying all this. A buttoned up jacket is “more” formal in appearance than an un-buttoned one…or so to speak. So, naturally formal eveningwear requires that the jacket buttons are fastened. That said, you can always make a case against it….and I say that is where your personal flavor comes in. If it can happen to DB lounge jackets during the 30s (the roll lapel with top button un-done…fastened at the lower most button), then why not to formal evening wear of today? Plus what about the tailcoat? you will say. Isn’t that worn unbuttoned despite the fact that it evolved from the DB riding coat…which was, often worn buttoned? (How ironic that the most formal evening wear garment does not even have functional buttonholes let alone the fact of actually trying to fasten them). A very interesting case here for a separate thread.

Apart from the traditional SB light colored dinner jackets there is also the SB & DB peak lapel versions. The later being much more rare than any other style. An SB peak lapel light colored dinner jacket is an attractive alternative to the roundness offered by shawl lapels. As with other styles, the best color will be an off shade of white.

Below is a picture from Summer of 38.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 5 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

This above is in white color actually with trousers in matching fabric, which are black in color. Shirt is silk (another alternative in summer formalwear shirting) with ribbon shaped bow-tie. Shoes are patent leather pumps but can be perfectly of calfskin or patent leather oxfords. You can also opt for mid-night blue trousers instead of traditional black. Some may say that it actually works even better with ivory / cream / off-white shades. Note the shape of the peak lapels (self facings) and a single stud shirt opening (showing through V).

This is almost the exact same outfit that was worn by James Bond in “Goldfinger” during the very first few scenes…complete with red carnation.

Below is the DB version of dinner jackets. This is from Summer of 38’. One of the very few & rare pictures painted in Italy (Venice).

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 6 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

This is the 2 button DB bone colored silk dinner jacket with self facing lapels. Worn with midnight blue tropical weight trousers and patent leather oxfords. The tie is “club” shaped and is silk satin in midnight blue. Note the 2 buttons / studs of shirt showing and a single button at the sleeves. Noteworthy is the tapering effect of the sleeves also.

Lastly on the topic of eveningwear and color…the topic of colored vests is always present and debated. I must say that while ivory, blue & deep-red colored vests were seen they were never advised for the most formal occasions. As a matter of fact they were most always…recommended for at home wear…when hosting a party or formal dinner.

Again, these colored vests were best recommended for in-house use ONLY. Of course…at these occasions you also have the wonderful option of lounging in a true smoking jacket in velvet. In my opinion…a far better option of using color rather than a mere deep-red, Ivory silk vest with the traditional black-tie outfit. That…however we will discuss some other time. Since a picture is probably much more effective than my writings….here is one. (I am posting this with extreme reluctance though…)

From mid-late summer of 34.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 9 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

Above is a SB peak lapel DJ with white pleated pique shirt, starched fold collar, pointed end dress bow-tie and finally a light yellowish-cream colored silk vest with 3-buttons and shawl (or rare peak) lapels.

Notice how the casual effect caused by the waistcoat is balanced by the un-usual starched turned-down collar shirt in pique! If you remember that even during this time starched collars were vastly being discarded for black-tie in favor of soft-collared shirts.

Another permissible touch of color in formal evening wear is the red “clock” of the black silk hose, which is considered essential (silk hose) for formal eveningwear .

Lets focus our attention towards the topic of formal daytime wear. I will start with an illustration, which, in my opinion is certainly one of the most beautiful (certainly one of the most detailed) ones that I have ever came across in AA/ Esky.

This is from Summer of 38’ and painted at Paddock, Royal Enclosure Ascot.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 10 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

I hope you gentlemen can see the detail in this picture. Trust me, by the time we get done with this…you will have most all basic styles covered in formal daywear.

Diving in lets focus on the gent in the middle. His outfit is of most interest to us…so we will begin here.

Start from the top. Gray Top Hat with black band, light pink (yes that’s right pink) shirt with starched white collar and cuffs. Tie is black with animal-figured (most likely a horse) stick-pin*, black cutaway with peak lapels, red carnation at the lapel, matching SB vest with white pique “slip” or edging. Black / grey bold striped pants most often of worsted cashmere & chamois gloves.

• this stunt of wearing animal figured stickpin was started by Duke of Windsor (then prince of Wales in early 30s).

Now…this usage of pink shirt is recommended because light pink has been known for its quality to bring out the best in gray and dull shades. You can use this combination effectively with gray flannel suits or even chalk striped ones. You can also use this combo if the occasion if of a wedding and you are a guest. In such a case, the cutaway is replaced by a DB stroller and pants were herringbone self-pattern in grey.

Carefully observe the two gents on the left side of the center figure. We will come back to them in a while. Their attire is of interest to us.

Moving towards the right side of the picture. Here is a zoomed in version.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 11 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

3 articles of interest here.

1) The gent at the extreme right wears a black notch lapel cutaway** . Shirt is solid light blue in color with starched white spread color and matching cuffs. Tie is solid dark blue Spitalfields worn with a stick pin. Waistcoat (vest) is biscuit colored DB with peak lapels. Pants are striped worsted.

This is the 2nd variation to this formal daytime wear attire. This actually very closely resembles what Prince Charles wore for his wedding a few weeks ago (with the exception of notch lapel cutaway).

** Now, you are probably wondering…what the heck…a notched lapel cutaway? Yes, that is quite right. It certainly seems to be the case that these notch lapels were predominately favored more in US than Europe and else where. It is certainly not recommended that you buy your first morning coat (cutaway) in a notch lapel version. However, if there is a frequent need for these (cannot imagine any situation why that would be so but still…) then by all means have the first one in a peak lapel and the 2nd one in the notch lapel version. Notch lapel on strollers don’t seem that odd. Again, a peaked lapel one first is advisable there also.

2) The fat gent in the middle is wearing a peak lapel morning coat with similar striped worsted trousers. His shirt is of light champagne color with a starched spread collar in white and matching cuffs. Tie is a combination blue and grey with geometric pattern. Vest is SB six buttons without a collar / lapel in Ivory color. That is your 3rd set of correct shirt tie and vest combinations available for formal daytime events.

3) The gent on the left wears a knee length rubberized riding coat is next. Note the short length and the skirt / flare effect. This coat was preferred by English hunting people, which is to say by a quorum of the lords and gentry. The wide sweep of the skirt lets the rain off fore and aft without wetting the shoes or the trousers. Clever isn’t it?

Alright…lets zoom into the picture to view the two gents in the background. As before…move about 5-7 feet away from the computer screen to best view this picture.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 12 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

First off to begin with note the 3 shades of formal wear right next to each other. On the extreme right (the main gents arm) is wearing a black peak lapel morning coat, on his left side (gent with a mustache) is wearing an oxford grey coat and finally on his left is a gent wearing a morning suit of medium / light grey.

The gent with a mustache is also wearing a starched collar with a blue tie. His pants however are quite unique as they are crash tweed in a checked pattern rather than striped. They can also be perfectly of a Saxony fabric in a similar checked pattern. Cheviot is another smart option.

On his right is the gent (next to the lady) in a grey morning suit, identical to the one seen on Prince Charles. I think there is a picture of that somewhere in this lounge also. This morning suit is actually less formal than the ensemble on the right. You would naturally think why? Well…a bit of history in there but we won’t go into that. Just take it for what it is worth…it is less formal than the customary black / oxford grey cutaway with striped trousers. Incidentally, it is usually spotted at Ascot mostly and not on state events or formal weddings for that matter. No wonder prince Charles (or Duke also) was not married in a morning suit but a formal morning coat with proper accessories. This gent in the picture is wearing a light blue shirt, dark navy tie, and a deep red carnation with it. His vest, unlike Prince Charles’ vest (DB vest with 6 button V front) is SB with usual 6 buttons of matching fabric.

Also spot the interesting note of a Sikh (maharaja probably) in blue turban rather than a top hat. A permissible headwear if you are a royal entity from colonies or else where.

For an interesting article in your wardrobe you can have the lounge suit version of this “morning suit”. Simply by substituting a regular lounge jacket of matching fabric instead of a “cutaway”. So, it will be the exact same suit but with a lounge (suit jacket). Imagine a peak lapel in Oxford Grey with 1 or 2 buttons (if you intend to use jacket separately) with jetted pockets and non-vented at the back. Vest DB with peak lapels and 6 or 8 button V front. Pants matching and high waisted with double pleats and plain hem (no cuffs)…preferably slanting.

In this day and age you can use a suit like this from formal day wear to most formal events at night with the exception of true black-tie event. This above mentioned suit will take you every where. For formal day wear…simply substitute the pants for a striped one, change your shirt to a light color one with according tie and viola! Now you have formal daywear. In the evening…try this suit with a light cream or other light colored shirt and a light colored tie (darker than shirt but not much)…think a shade darker than cream. Wear it with a pocket square and it will be something really special. Now you guys will probably ask…why not the same version in Navy or mid-night blue? I say go for it...if you like it and see it working. However, you will probably not be able to cover the formal day end of the bracket with the navy or midnight version. Oxford grey will certainly do that but blue might work better in the evening.

Moving towards the last illustration of the series….its the other part of essential formal daytime needs…a wedding event.

Here are a few remaining version of formal daywear. This is from Summer of 34’.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 14 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

As you can see, the wedding party is ready for a picture after the wedding. We have the groom on the extreme left, the guests (next to the bride on her right & the tall gent at the back), An Usher, the best man, and the Bride’s father.

The groom wears the most formal of all daytime articles; a black or Oxford grey cutaway, one button peaked lapel model, with trousers of grey with black and white stripes; Db waist coat of white linen; white shirt with starched bosom and cuffs, and a bold wing collar; black polished calf shoes with linen spats to match the waist coat.


For the guests an others…lets zoom in.

Vol. I No. III (May '05) Page 15 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

From left a guest wears a SB 2 button notched lapel black jacket (stroller); DB vest of white linen; black and white Shetland checked trousers; black calf shoes with grey buttoned uppers.

An Usher (2nd from left) wears black or Oxford grey one-button notch lapel cutaway; grey trousers with white stripes; double breasted white or natural linen waistcoat.

The best man (3rd from left) wears a black or Oxford grey one-button notch lapel cutaway with black and white herringbone trousers; natural linen DB waistcoat; black straight tipped shoes with buttoned tops of grey box cloth.

The Bride’s father (4th from left) wears a 2 button peaked lapel cutaway of black or Oxford grey; SB waistcoat of same fabric and color as cutaway; dark grey trousers with white stripes; black calf straight tipped shoes with linen spats.


Another Guest (the tall gent in the back ground) is wearing a DB stroller in black color with striped Ascot, red carnation, and plain gray trousers without cuffs. The above mentioned pink shirt combo can be substituted here with ease.

On all of these gents note the length of the pants…almost zero break. Finally one quick note... 3 men in this picture are shown in black and two in Oxford grey. This coloring is done by artists such that it is easy to tell the difference between the two. In reality, Oxford grey is about 80-95% black thread so the difference is minimal...analogus to mid-night blue & black.

Before I end this as I always keep in mind that it is not advisable that you use this dressing guide for a wedding in our times. The sole purpose of these is to open your mind and to expose you to various classic modes of dressing. Take whatever you find useable from here and move on...


I think this should do it for the time being.

Sincerely
etutee

Wonderful, as ususal, Tutee. Thanks so much.

I must say, I do not like the notch morning coat. It looks out of balance; the top is too weak to stand up to the rest of the coat. Other than that, magnificent!

Quite an informative post. I give you my compliments on all the work. I now know from head to toe what fits and what doesn't for any formal occasion. I need some striped trousers to go with my cuttaway coat.

I have several friends who dress in the traditional garb for formal occasions and I will try to get some pics of the next event I attend.

You don't see the fully belted suits much in the 1930's and after, though you do see alot of the belted back suits. I will post some of my Catalog pics from the 1930's Sears catalog in an upcoming thread.

Mr. Alden posted this in the AS Photojournal:

http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/gallery/A ... Z_20040904

This is John Elkann, the last heir of Agnelli, dressing a notch lapel Morning coat from AS.

Giona Granata.

Wonderfully informative!
A whole education.
Many thanks, Tutee.

Giona: How can you tell that coat has notched lapels? The picture is too small for me to tell.

Mr. Etutee;

Fantastic! I am much taken with the idea of a stroller. The rest of the illustrations are magnificant, truly. Thank you for continuing to educate us in the details of a more elegant era.

A side note: Brooks Bros. did a white cotton/linen Norfolk jacket a season or two ago. So they may still have the pattern squirreled away at the factory... .

Does anyone know if there is a "local" equivalent of the Royal Enclosure at Ascot? I understand that The Kentucky Derby sees a fair number of cutaways and toppers among the right-thnking crowd.

Best Regards and Thanks Again.
CCox

Manton and Giona

The coat in question does have a notched lapel though the small photo does not show it very well. The fact that it is also very dark does not help matters. If you put the photo into a photo editor and zoom in, you can see it



Cheers.

Here is my belted Norfolk jacket to provide further illustration.

Dear Etutee,

Thank you so much for all the work and for the wonderful reading and pictures.

Best wishes,
Miguel

Fantastic, fantastic. thanks very much.

I recently had a suit made exactly as you have recommended - SB, peak lapel, 2B, with DB, 6B peak lapel waistcoat. I wished I had a better selection of material, but I had mine made in a dark grey flannel (yes, I would have preferred oxford grey worsted, but isn't flannel a popular choice in the 30s?), about 14 oz.

I have also added a second waistcoat in buff cream colour, DB, peak lapel, MOP buttons. And I have worn it on one occassion - that of an afternoon church wedding with a pair of herringbone grey pants taken from another suit.

I'll find some time and take some pictures and put them in the Members' gallery for viewing and comment.

zjpj, beautiful Norfolk!!

pchong, I just got the exact same suit but with a one-button peaked lapel jacket, not 2 button. Very nice!

thanks uppercase - I'd post in Member Photos but evidently have not been granted access.

--

Dear Etutee...

Could you please laborate more on the slip in your following comment:

"Tie is black with animal-figured (most likely a horse) stick-pin*, black cutaway with peak lapels, red carnation at the lapel, matching SB vest with white pique “slip” or edging. "

Is the slip also like a waistcoat? If so, can you describe it, or have a picture to illustrate how it looks like?

As we all know and so admire, it was also seen in Prince Charles' wedding outfit under his waistcoat.

Thanks.