VOL. II NO. VI (Oct 06') Out Of Town Clothes AA
Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:31 pm
Dear members,
Here is the long awaited next part of the AA / Esky series. This is the MOST detailed of all posts I have done so far (both in illustrations and text). There was a long 4 month wait between this & pervious one… and I hope after reading this part you will feel that it was worth it. Due to my circumstances it is getting harder and harder to maintain with these posts so I am not sure if there will be another one before this year ends or not. Which is why I have focused on this one a lot more. This post was written over the course of 3 odd months and as such is quite detailed. It primarily deals with the broad topics of Out of Town wear, Horse & Hunt, Rainwear, Fall Fabrics & University Clothes.
All of these topics can be separately turned into a post of this length but that is certainly not a good idea (well not for me). There is a HUGE amount of cross-over or overlap between these topics, which is primarily the reason why I have addressed them altogether. This overlap is hardly accidental as you will discover in your reading. So without much delay let us start with the topics.
It is divided into 5 sections. The first one is the most complex of all and involves some of the critical processes involved in cutting. This is a the reminder of where we left of last time. Kindly see the link below to be directed to last post. In there see the Section I for further detail.
Vol. II No. V (June 06) Summer Items
Beginner readers can skip over this section as it deals with some advanced concepts
From 1928-33’ era Tailor & Cutter...
WAIST SUPPRESSION
Waist suppression, or the distribution of width at waist, is not merely a matter of size. Its effect is much more than local. Like so many features in cutting and fitting, it proves that sections are interdependent, and that cutting is a matter of co-ordination. A garment is a sort of organism, each part having some bearing on the others. You cannot isolate a section, or even a principle, that seems to have only a restricted influence. A shoulder is altered and chest, scye, and other parts are changed. You tighten at one place and throw loose- ness at another. That a coat may fit admirably until the sleeves are in has become a cutting-room platitude; a collar may turn a fit into a convulsion!
Therefore, waist suppression has more ramifications than appear on the surface. It affects the blades and the hips, and acutely influences balance. Incorrect distribution of width at waist throws a coat entirely out of gear; a garment may be large enough in actual size and yet not “ meet” in front. Cuts in the forepart, by the way, often make a coat tight-fitting unless an extra allowance has been made. Sometimes shoulders have been carefully adjusted; and yet blades are full, front of scye tight, and shoulders creased, through over-hollowing at waist. The fact is that the waist is a vital point, and too much consideration cannot be given to it At the risk of repetition, it may be said that the upper and lower sections are mutually dependent’; and if they are not cut in harmony with each other, and in unison with the figure, trouble ensues.
Reverting to the question of sizes and suppression: some figures are hollow at back, others are hollow at sides, and others still may recede at front, and yet all may be the same size. From these varieties or inequalities in the hollowness of the figure it will be seen immediately that suppression is dependent on the form of the waist and its relation to other parts of the figure, independently of the actual circumference. To give concrete instances: one may be quite normal in size of waist and yet be fairly flat at back, with either extra hollow at sides, or a receding front waist; or extra hollow at back with a forward front Some men with increased waist measure require just as large suppressions at sides and back as a normal figure. Just as large suppressions at sides and back as a normal figure. Big men sometimes require comparatively large hollowing, while men whose waist girth is normal may need them small. The shaping of the back depends on the attitude of the figure, while that at the side is governed by the form of the waist. To sum up: we come to the axiom that suppression is affected by attitude and form rather than size.
It has been said above that suppression governs balance; but it is also true that balance governs suppression. Over suppression will throw the balance out, but incorrect balance will nullify or modify suppression. As an instance of this, it may be pointed out that the suppression may be quite correct for the figure at the back, and yet, let the back balance be short, and the coat will not fit in to the waist.
It has often been said that the principle on which waist suppression should be based is, to find provision for prominences, to create fullness. This statement or definition is open to argument. As a rule the hips and chest are larger than the waist, it is true; but when cutting a coat it is made large enough at hips and chest and then taken in to fit indentations of waist.
Presuming that you had cut a perfectly straight or loose- fitting sac for a man and then wished to make it close-fitting at waist, you would carve out, shape, and suppress not to find receptacles for prominences and curves, but for fitting into or indenting the hollows. The same thing applies if you cut close-waisted coat to start with.
That to take in or suppress unduly will throw a round or fullness at another place may be admitted, but not that it is the primary object of waist suppression. If you take the case of the suppression between back and side-body, and say that it throws a round over the blades, one may ask whether this could not be done by overlapping the side-body as was done in the old days.
And that brings me to an interesting point. If you look at old systems, such as the “ Old Thirds” which were drafted with closed parts, what is the conclusion to which you are inevitably led ? That the problems of waist suppression, as we understand them to-day, are the outcome of the modem method of drafting coats in the square. If you draft a coat with closed parts it is then merely a question of size and balance.
The following methods of distribution of width have been given in respect to corpulence:
(i) When the waist measure only increases and the chest and seat remain normal, the increase should go to the front.
(ii) When the seat and waist increase proportionately from the normal, the increment should be added at the sides only.
(iii) When the seat only increases half the amount of disproportion at the waist, the increase should be distributed equally at front and sides.
(iv) When the seat only increases and the waist and chest remain normal, the side-body indentation should be reduced and a cut taken out of front waist.
It will be as well to consider the methods adopted in a few systems of dealing with suppression. A well-known method, first published over fifty years ago, was founded on a combination of height and width measures, following Wampen in this respect. The authors direct special attention to the arrangement of the elements of height and width in the system, as governing the depression at waist. This important point is based upon the degree of affinity existing between the two particular quantities of length of waist and size of chest or scale, and varies according to their difference. The waist length must be taken with the greatest care between the collar-bone and the point on a line with the greatest indentation of waist.
To regulate this hollow of waist in the system, the two above- mentioned quantities must be found, and then, by comparison, ascertain the smaller of the two; this is the one always to be used as the standard for finding the exact depression.
In the case of 24” chest and 17” natural waist length, the latter, being the smaller quantity, the twelfth of that1 3/8”, would give the depression. If 16 ½” chest and 18” natural waist, the chest, in this case being the smaller, would be used.
But we may fairly ask: Is this principle a correct one? If you follow it out to its logical conclusion it means, often, that the taller the man the greater the depression, irrespective of the size of waist. Height should not enter into this subject at all.
The old method adopted by Wampen and many others before and since was to take the 30” waist and 36” chest as a standard, or, rather, 6” less waist than chest as a strictly proportionate size. Modem authors have taken 4” less as a proportionate standard, such as 36”, 32”.
It may also be noted that some men have discarded this as a base from which to work. It has been argued that, although these may be the dimensions of a standard figure, the dimensions of a figure are not the mathematical standard. The square is the mathematical standard, therefore the square of the chest or an equality of chest and waist is the real basis or standard of departure. Then one-third of the excess would be placed at side and two-thirds at front.
STRAIGHTNESS AND CROOKEDNESS, OR THE LOCATION OF THE NECK-POINT
There is nothing which has caused so much discussion in the tailoring trade as the position of the neck-front The reason for this is that so many have thought there should be a fixed position which, when found, would solve a number of difficulties. But it may be said at once that it is impossible definitely, rather than approximately, to locate the neck-point.
Geometricians tell us that a point is that which has position but not length, breadth, or thickness; but the unfortunate neck- point has not an assured position, and I’m afraid nothing can be done to give it permanent stabilization. Its position is governed by many factors, and because of varying influences must always remain approximate. If everything could be arranged with mathematical exactitude, there would be less art in tailoring.
The nearest approach to a solution of the problem is by a sweep from the front of scye intersecting a line squared up at a certain position in advance of the front of scye; or of a sweet from the ‘front of scye intersected by another sweep from the centre of front on the chest line the latter having a quantity added sufficient for the working up of the fronts.
If the centre of front is arranged correctly, and, following that, the position of the front of scye by the across-chest or other measure, and the length of front shoulder by the front shoulder measure, then the basis of a good-fitting front is assured. The position of the line squared up in advance of front of scye (or the amount added for second sweep) is flexible because of the varying requirements.
THREE GOVERNING FACTORS
The position of the neck-point is influenced by the diameter of neck prominence of chest, and the amount of manipulation that is to go into the garment. These, in their turn, are governed by subsidiary causes. The point is this: the breast is round, but the centre of breast is not. If the right length of cloth be given up the centre of front to shoulder, there must be some superfluous cloth either near the scye or at the front edge; and one must decide where this is to go. A straight cut forces the cloth towards the scye; a crooked one pushes it towards the front. If the latter,” then it may be removed by means of levees or manipulation.
Of course, it must not be forgotten that the exact position of neck-point is also influenced by the type of figure in various ways. If a man is broad across the chest the front of scye will be backward; the converse holds good in case of a narrow front.
Again, supposing the figure is long in the neck, the front- shoulder measure will be increased and the neck-point raised, independently of other considerations, and vice versa with a low neck.
To move the neck-point forward or backward, in a straight horizontal line, is not true straightness or crookedness; this partakes more of openness and closeness.
In forwarding or receding, the arc should be pivoted from front of scye; therefore a straighter cut is slightly depressed and a crooked one raised. The location of the neck-point is affected, as has been said, by the amount of manipulation to go into the coat This is governed by various considerations. If a customer is prominent in the chest and erect, the neck-point must be receded, to give more length to the centre of front; this extra length allows for working up, or taking out levees, to give form to the chest.
The class of trade is another feature which has a bearing on the subject. In some high-class trades it is notorious that a more crooked cut is desirable, because of the extra manipulation. But there are also some famous houses which cut their shoulders decidedly straight and short thus to allow for lot of straining out with the iron. Where little manipulation is expected, a relatively straight cut should be given.
Makes of material should also affect the placement of the neck-point. Some materials do not lend themselves to working up, hence the necessity for a straight shoulder. The style of coat will also directly influence the cut. For instance, ff a coat is to button up to the neck, it will take a less crooked shoulder than if it rolled to the waist. A coat that is always to be worn unbuttoned requires a relatively crooked cut, and for this reason: A straight cut, as stated above, forces the material towards the scye, while a crooked cut throws it on the front; obviously an unbuttoned coat, haying no support in the way of fastening, needs the treatment which will not tend to pull it away from the front of chest.
END OF SECTION I OF THIS POST
Here is the long awaited next part of the AA / Esky series. This is the MOST detailed of all posts I have done so far (both in illustrations and text). There was a long 4 month wait between this & pervious one… and I hope after reading this part you will feel that it was worth it. Due to my circumstances it is getting harder and harder to maintain with these posts so I am not sure if there will be another one before this year ends or not. Which is why I have focused on this one a lot more. This post was written over the course of 3 odd months and as such is quite detailed. It primarily deals with the broad topics of Out of Town wear, Horse & Hunt, Rainwear, Fall Fabrics & University Clothes.
All of these topics can be separately turned into a post of this length but that is certainly not a good idea (well not for me). There is a HUGE amount of cross-over or overlap between these topics, which is primarily the reason why I have addressed them altogether. This overlap is hardly accidental as you will discover in your reading. So without much delay let us start with the topics.
It is divided into 5 sections. The first one is the most complex of all and involves some of the critical processes involved in cutting. This is a the reminder of where we left of last time. Kindly see the link below to be directed to last post. In there see the Section I for further detail.
Vol. II No. V (June 06) Summer Items
Beginner readers can skip over this section as it deals with some advanced concepts
From 1928-33’ era Tailor & Cutter...
WAIST SUPPRESSION
Waist suppression, or the distribution of width at waist, is not merely a matter of size. Its effect is much more than local. Like so many features in cutting and fitting, it proves that sections are interdependent, and that cutting is a matter of co-ordination. A garment is a sort of organism, each part having some bearing on the others. You cannot isolate a section, or even a principle, that seems to have only a restricted influence. A shoulder is altered and chest, scye, and other parts are changed. You tighten at one place and throw loose- ness at another. That a coat may fit admirably until the sleeves are in has become a cutting-room platitude; a collar may turn a fit into a convulsion!
Therefore, waist suppression has more ramifications than appear on the surface. It affects the blades and the hips, and acutely influences balance. Incorrect distribution of width at waist throws a coat entirely out of gear; a garment may be large enough in actual size and yet not “ meet” in front. Cuts in the forepart, by the way, often make a coat tight-fitting unless an extra allowance has been made. Sometimes shoulders have been carefully adjusted; and yet blades are full, front of scye tight, and shoulders creased, through over-hollowing at waist. The fact is that the waist is a vital point, and too much consideration cannot be given to it At the risk of repetition, it may be said that the upper and lower sections are mutually dependent’; and if they are not cut in harmony with each other, and in unison with the figure, trouble ensues.
Reverting to the question of sizes and suppression: some figures are hollow at back, others are hollow at sides, and others still may recede at front, and yet all may be the same size. From these varieties or inequalities in the hollowness of the figure it will be seen immediately that suppression is dependent on the form of the waist and its relation to other parts of the figure, independently of the actual circumference. To give concrete instances: one may be quite normal in size of waist and yet be fairly flat at back, with either extra hollow at sides, or a receding front waist; or extra hollow at back with a forward front Some men with increased waist measure require just as large suppressions at sides and back as a normal figure. Just as large suppressions at sides and back as a normal figure. Big men sometimes require comparatively large hollowing, while men whose waist girth is normal may need them small. The shaping of the back depends on the attitude of the figure, while that at the side is governed by the form of the waist. To sum up: we come to the axiom that suppression is affected by attitude and form rather than size.
It has been said above that suppression governs balance; but it is also true that balance governs suppression. Over suppression will throw the balance out, but incorrect balance will nullify or modify suppression. As an instance of this, it may be pointed out that the suppression may be quite correct for the figure at the back, and yet, let the back balance be short, and the coat will not fit in to the waist.
It has often been said that the principle on which waist suppression should be based is, to find provision for prominences, to create fullness. This statement or definition is open to argument. As a rule the hips and chest are larger than the waist, it is true; but when cutting a coat it is made large enough at hips and chest and then taken in to fit indentations of waist.
Presuming that you had cut a perfectly straight or loose- fitting sac for a man and then wished to make it close-fitting at waist, you would carve out, shape, and suppress not to find receptacles for prominences and curves, but for fitting into or indenting the hollows. The same thing applies if you cut close-waisted coat to start with.
That to take in or suppress unduly will throw a round or fullness at another place may be admitted, but not that it is the primary object of waist suppression. If you take the case of the suppression between back and side-body, and say that it throws a round over the blades, one may ask whether this could not be done by overlapping the side-body as was done in the old days.
And that brings me to an interesting point. If you look at old systems, such as the “ Old Thirds” which were drafted with closed parts, what is the conclusion to which you are inevitably led ? That the problems of waist suppression, as we understand them to-day, are the outcome of the modem method of drafting coats in the square. If you draft a coat with closed parts it is then merely a question of size and balance.
The following methods of distribution of width have been given in respect to corpulence:
(i) When the waist measure only increases and the chest and seat remain normal, the increase should go to the front.
(ii) When the seat and waist increase proportionately from the normal, the increment should be added at the sides only.
(iii) When the seat only increases half the amount of disproportion at the waist, the increase should be distributed equally at front and sides.
(iv) When the seat only increases and the waist and chest remain normal, the side-body indentation should be reduced and a cut taken out of front waist.
It will be as well to consider the methods adopted in a few systems of dealing with suppression. A well-known method, first published over fifty years ago, was founded on a combination of height and width measures, following Wampen in this respect. The authors direct special attention to the arrangement of the elements of height and width in the system, as governing the depression at waist. This important point is based upon the degree of affinity existing between the two particular quantities of length of waist and size of chest or scale, and varies according to their difference. The waist length must be taken with the greatest care between the collar-bone and the point on a line with the greatest indentation of waist.
To regulate this hollow of waist in the system, the two above- mentioned quantities must be found, and then, by comparison, ascertain the smaller of the two; this is the one always to be used as the standard for finding the exact depression.
In the case of 24” chest and 17” natural waist length, the latter, being the smaller quantity, the twelfth of that1 3/8”, would give the depression. If 16 ½” chest and 18” natural waist, the chest, in this case being the smaller, would be used.
But we may fairly ask: Is this principle a correct one? If you follow it out to its logical conclusion it means, often, that the taller the man the greater the depression, irrespective of the size of waist. Height should not enter into this subject at all.
The old method adopted by Wampen and many others before and since was to take the 30” waist and 36” chest as a standard, or, rather, 6” less waist than chest as a strictly proportionate size. Modem authors have taken 4” less as a proportionate standard, such as 36”, 32”.
It may also be noted that some men have discarded this as a base from which to work. It has been argued that, although these may be the dimensions of a standard figure, the dimensions of a figure are not the mathematical standard. The square is the mathematical standard, therefore the square of the chest or an equality of chest and waist is the real basis or standard of departure. Then one-third of the excess would be placed at side and two-thirds at front.
STRAIGHTNESS AND CROOKEDNESS, OR THE LOCATION OF THE NECK-POINT
There is nothing which has caused so much discussion in the tailoring trade as the position of the neck-front The reason for this is that so many have thought there should be a fixed position which, when found, would solve a number of difficulties. But it may be said at once that it is impossible definitely, rather than approximately, to locate the neck-point.
Geometricians tell us that a point is that which has position but not length, breadth, or thickness; but the unfortunate neck- point has not an assured position, and I’m afraid nothing can be done to give it permanent stabilization. Its position is governed by many factors, and because of varying influences must always remain approximate. If everything could be arranged with mathematical exactitude, there would be less art in tailoring.
The nearest approach to a solution of the problem is by a sweep from the front of scye intersecting a line squared up at a certain position in advance of the front of scye; or of a sweet from the ‘front of scye intersected by another sweep from the centre of front on the chest line the latter having a quantity added sufficient for the working up of the fronts.
If the centre of front is arranged correctly, and, following that, the position of the front of scye by the across-chest or other measure, and the length of front shoulder by the front shoulder measure, then the basis of a good-fitting front is assured. The position of the line squared up in advance of front of scye (or the amount added for second sweep) is flexible because of the varying requirements.
THREE GOVERNING FACTORS
The position of the neck-point is influenced by the diameter of neck prominence of chest, and the amount of manipulation that is to go into the garment. These, in their turn, are governed by subsidiary causes. The point is this: the breast is round, but the centre of breast is not. If the right length of cloth be given up the centre of front to shoulder, there must be some superfluous cloth either near the scye or at the front edge; and one must decide where this is to go. A straight cut forces the cloth towards the scye; a crooked one pushes it towards the front. If the latter,” then it may be removed by means of levees or manipulation.
Of course, it must not be forgotten that the exact position of neck-point is also influenced by the type of figure in various ways. If a man is broad across the chest the front of scye will be backward; the converse holds good in case of a narrow front.
Again, supposing the figure is long in the neck, the front- shoulder measure will be increased and the neck-point raised, independently of other considerations, and vice versa with a low neck.
To move the neck-point forward or backward, in a straight horizontal line, is not true straightness or crookedness; this partakes more of openness and closeness.
In forwarding or receding, the arc should be pivoted from front of scye; therefore a straighter cut is slightly depressed and a crooked one raised. The location of the neck-point is affected, as has been said, by the amount of manipulation to go into the coat This is governed by various considerations. If a customer is prominent in the chest and erect, the neck-point must be receded, to give more length to the centre of front; this extra length allows for working up, or taking out levees, to give form to the chest.
The class of trade is another feature which has a bearing on the subject. In some high-class trades it is notorious that a more crooked cut is desirable, because of the extra manipulation. But there are also some famous houses which cut their shoulders decidedly straight and short thus to allow for lot of straining out with the iron. Where little manipulation is expected, a relatively straight cut should be given.
Makes of material should also affect the placement of the neck-point. Some materials do not lend themselves to working up, hence the necessity for a straight shoulder. The style of coat will also directly influence the cut. For instance, ff a coat is to button up to the neck, it will take a less crooked shoulder than if it rolled to the waist. A coat that is always to be worn unbuttoned requires a relatively crooked cut, and for this reason: A straight cut, as stated above, forces the material towards the scye, while a crooked cut throws it on the front; obviously an unbuttoned coat, haying no support in the way of fastening, needs the treatment which will not tend to pull it away from the front of chest.
END OF SECTION I OF THIS POST