A sublime visit

[alden]

Gentlemen,

This week, in the company of another LL member, I was honored to have a private tour of the Royal dressing archives in London. The purpose of my visit was to view a collection of the Duke of Windsor’s clothing that was purchased in the New York Sotheby’s auction about a decade ago.

During the visit and with the guidance of a perfectly charming group of Curators, I was able to inspect, touch, hold and measure one of Windsor’s evening suits, a two button tweed suit with plus fours and trousers, a DB tweed suit, and a Safari Suit.

All of the tailored clothing was made by Scholte in the 1930s. The quality of the fabrics and the sewing is beyond Modern comprehension. I don’t know any better way of saying it.

My first clue occurred when I was trying to measure the front and back length on the tweed DB and literally had trouble finding the shoulder seam. It was nearly invisible. Hand sewing a seam to the point that it nearly vanishes from sight is something akin to modern microsurgery. It must have taken skilled craftsman weeks of time to make a single jacket.

Of course the measurements I took confirm the balance of the designs that we see today in pictures. They were simply perfect.

For all of the dandies who trot about with their sleeve buttons open, it might be nice to know that Windsor’s clothes had no working buttonholes. All four buttons were closed. Listen to me down in Italy, listen.

And, all the buttons on his suits were plastic, the same kind that AS uses today on their suits.

I am preparing a report on this LL visit complete with pictures. It will be published soon.

Stay tuned.

M Alden

PS My most sincere thanks go out to the wonderfully professional and hospitable group of people who made this visit an informative and delighful one. I hope you are reading this word of thanks. Do come visit us here when you can.

[Prince Barry]

Sounds extremely exciting.

Looking forward to viewing the pictures.

[manton]

Bruce Boyer did the same thing with Cheo Park (a New York tailor) when a lot of the clothes were at the Met a few years back. It would fascinating to see you two compare notes.

[le.gentleman]

Wow - I really look forward to reading your report, Michael!

...
And, all the buttons on his suits were plastic, the same kind that AS uses today on their suits.

Well, in the 1930s plastic was not as usual as it is today. So, might it be possible that the more or less new invention "plastic" was more expensive and therefore more exclusive as horn buttons back then?

[pchong]

Fascinating, Michael, looking forward to the pictures and report. Thanks.

[Incroyable]

Wow - I really look forward to reading your report, Michael!

...
And, all the buttons on his suits were plastic, the same kind that AS uses today on their suits.

Well, in the 1930s plastic was not as usual as it is today. So, might it be possible that the more or less new invention "plastic" was more expensive and therefore more exclusive as horn buttons back then?

Possibly some sort of a vulcanite concoction?

[RWS]

We all can envy Michael his experience. I’m glad that we’ll be able to participate in it vicariously, through reading his report and viewing his photographs -- to all of which, I look forward.

[TVD]

Yes, most interested to hear the full story.

By the by, numerous artificially produced materials ("plastic") were used in the past. Celluloid, hard rubber and resin based stuff was around. Bakelite is the best known resin type material, I believe.

[The Doctor]

They use to refer to the buttons as casein (not sure of the spelling) in Anderson & Sheppard and I believe they were made from milk.

I was once shouted at down the phone by one of my American customer’s secretaries, whom I took over from Colin Harvey after he retired and asked why he didn't have real holes to cuffs on his jackets.

My reply was that he'd never had them, so I wasn't about to add them. She persisted with; well does the POW not have them?

No, mostly vets and anybody else who have to roll up their sleeves, to which there was a silence and a polite thank you, we'll leave them as they are then.

[Master G]

Excited as I am, Sir, I trust you captured said shoulder seam? Intrigued, so I am, having never seen.

[Mr. Rover]

There is sincerely no comparison between vintage and modern clothing. Even the cheapest off-the-rack suits from that era fit and feel so much better than most of what is on the market today. The drape of the fabric, precision of seams, flattery in fit.
Hollywood in the 30's was the center of fit and style- afterall, every imperfection shows up 10-fold on the silver screen. Every seam, every stitch, every little crease that shouldn't have been there was up there in black and white. Color is a little more forgiving.
How stiff is the fabric? Is it as flimsy as most of the stuff today, even as a tweed?

Some intersting buttons from a 30's suit:

From this suit:


P.S. How was the jacket lined? Was it done with skeleton lining like many jackets of that era? Were the pants lined?

[manicturncoat]

For all of the dandies who trot about with their sleeve buttons open, it might be nice to know that Windsor’s clothes had no working buttonholes. All four buttons were closed. Listen to me down in Italy, listen.

When did this habit start? Who started it? It has now turned into an epidemic. Recently, in Italy, I saw a trick that it's practioners use to stay ahead of the RTW suits that now have working buttonholes(but usually only the bottom two) is to unbotton the highest one and button all the rest.

[RWS]

. . . . RTW suits . . . now have working buttonholes(but usually only the bottom two) . . . .

Interesting. But both my A&S and custom (individual-paper-pattern) Oxxford suits and coats have similar arrangements: the top one or two buttons do not work. Frankly, I prefer this, particularly on the Oxxford coats in which one cannot see any difference whatsoever between the true buttonholes and the false ones.

Even Oxxford (which has, perhaps, the finest sewing I've seen from a contemporary maker), though, does not now produce the superb craftsmanship that Michael describes from just two generations ago. I agree with Ray: it appears that the quality of even massmade craftsmanship from the ’30s often exceeds all but the very best to be found today (the finest I've ever seen, though, was on a man's coat from the third quarter of the eighteenth century, beautiful but fragile).

[jklu]

For all of the dandies who trot about with their sleeve buttons open, it might be nice to know that Windsor’s clothes had no working buttonholes. All four buttons were closed. Listen to me down in Italy, listen.

When did this habit start? Who started it? It has now turned into an epidemic. Recently, in Italy, I saw a trick that it's practioners use to stay ahead of the RTW suits that now have working buttonholes(but usually only the bottom two) is to unbotton the highest one and button all the rest.

I believe Gianni Agnelli is the granddaddy of the look. So many people, especially Italians, try to copy his sartorial tics instead of developing a personal style.

[Incroyable]

Jean Cocteau wore the open buttoned look much earlier than G.Agnelli; back in th 1930s.

As for that button, it reminds me of those plastics used for Sheaffer pens.