The London Lounge

The following is an adaptation of the wardrobe suggestions found on the Kilgour, Standbury site: http://www.8savilerow.com/style04.html

GARMENT: Heavyweight suits
MATERIAL: 100% pure wool worsted, and flannels.Weight 14oz to 19oz
PURPOSE: Fall and Winter days in London, New York, Paris and Moscow. Necessary for well dressed businessmen and non-business man alike.
DESIGN: Pinstripe (Blue and Grey ground),Charcoal Grey flannel, plain navy.
STYLE: Three double breasted (6 x 2) and three single breasted (button 3)FEATURES Excellent crease resistance, makes up beautifully, longevity, makes you feel and look like Gable, Astaire or Cooper.
QUANTITY Ideally plan to have a minimum of six suits at this weight, more if you have real taste.

GARMENT Medium weight suits
MATERIAL 10oz to 13oz pure wool worsted (Cloth this weight does not drape as well as the heavier cloth above, but allowances have to be made for strong Central heating)
PURPOSE A satisfactory utility suit for temperatures between 50 and 60 Fahrenheit or for Spring
FEATURES Fabrics in a huge range of designs
QUANTITY We advise five suits proper for all occasions. Extra trousers advisable because with these cloths you are going to need them every six months.

GARMENT Light weight suits
MATERIAL 7oz to 9oz weight
PURPOSE For warm Summers only
FEATURES Choose lighter coloured fabrics in keeping with the Season. Beige and off-white hues are handsome.
QUANTITY Six suits: two in linen, two in mohair and two in high twist fine wool fresco. Or if you have a surfeit of taste, six Irish linen suits unlined 450 gms minimum.


GARMENT Overcoats
MATERIAL 19oz to 28oz wool overcoating and tweed
PURPOSE For wearing outdoors
FEATURES Camel, dark grey or navy
QUANTITY Four: Black wool DB overcoat for formal occasions, dark blue or gray wool SB overcoat, covert coat, and tweed overcoat.


GARMENT Sports Jackets and blazers
PURPOSE Principally semi-informal, these garments can be worn anytime and anywhere in the country when you are 16-50 years of age and anywhere you desire for the years thereafter. After 75 years of age, 800 gms tweeds should be replaced with 650 gms for the lighter weight on the shoulders.
MATERIAL Homespun wools, Donegals, Cheviots, Harris tweeds and Linens
QUANTITY No limit! (We finally agree.)

GARMENT Trousers
MATERIAL High twist woollens, cottons, flannels, cavalry twills and cordroy
FEATURES We favour plain colours with no limit to shade and tweed trousers in rakish patterns
PURPOSE Whenever not wearing them will land you in jail.
QUANTITY At least 15 pairs per season

GARMENT Dress Wear (the following are appropriate)
Dinner jacket and trousers
Black Barathea ( 12 oz)
Dinner jacket
White wool worsted, worn with black trousers
The above can be styled single or double breasted, with peak lapel and a standard or shawl collar.
Black silk cummerbund to match silk facing on jacket

Smoking jacket
Navy, Green or Maroon silk velvet to be worn with trews
Morning Coat Suit
Black coat, beige waistcoat and grey and black striped trousers
Matching Grey coat, waistcoat and trousers
Evening dress tails
Matching black coat with silk facing and trousers, White Marcella waistcoat

GARMENT
Shooting suits 2 tweed shooting suits
Loud check to frighten and attract the birds

alden wrote:DESIGN: Pinstripe (Blue and Grey ground),Charcoal Grey flannel, plain navy.
STYLE: Three double breasted (6 x 2) and three single breasted (button 3)

What is your favored fabric for plain navy? I've occasionally thought that flannel might be OK for warmth and softness, but navy blue flannels never have the depth of color that one might find in grey.

Serge, on the other hand, is a little severe.

Other preferred options?

§

Grays will always be richer colors as opposed to blues as gray dyes take better than blues.

If you want richer colors in plains, then look for higher weights in the cloth. One day compare a 9 ozs and 13 ozs plain in the same shade of blue. The heavier cloth will have a richer, deeper color. That is another reason why heavier cloths look better. Not only do they drape better, the colors are richer.

There are some excellent plain blue worsteds in both the HLesser and Smith's 13, 14 and 16 ozs books.

If you want a rich blue in a flannel, you will have to go to 14 ozs weight cloth.

Mohairs are another excellent choice for plain blue as well as heavyweight Irish linens.

I do not know whether this qualifies as "plain", but herringbone, birdseye, sharkskin, diagonal self-stripes (I have no idea what the trade name for this fabric is) can all be obtained in dark blue. There are many (normal - vertical) self-stripe cloths as well that should be considered. I have even seen self-checks, although the effect was somewhat raffish.

While these cloths appear plain from a distance, up close they offer a pleasing variety and interest to the eye, due to their structure and hint of colour.

Many of the better English weavers will have used yarns in several just slightly different shades of the base colour to achieve a mix, again adding interest.

Finally, I feel that especially with dark blue, the finer the yarn, the deeper and smoother the colour. To illustrate, the next time you are at a tailors or cloth merchants, hold the following plain midnight blue herringbones next to each other and compare: 13oz English standard worsted, 11oz Smith's Siena (S120s), 11oz Lesser Lumb's Golden Bale, Scabal Super 130, Lesser Super 150, any Super 180 or Super 200 (Scabal, Loro Piana, Barbera, Dormeuil - whatever they may be able to find).

You will observe that the finer the yarn, the darker the effect of the colour. Also, the sheen changes from a matt grey (dulling the colour a bit), to a soft, silky lustre accentuating the weave structure and changing depending on the angle from which you look.

Obviously, the weight, cost, durability and resulting usefulness of those cloths varies greatly, but the exercise illustrates what impact the diameter of the wool fibre has on the dying and weaving process.

I can't remember whether I already posted this, but "Alden's Minimum Wardrobe" taken strictly literally, has to be adjusted for local style and also the profession one works in. Certain things he suggests would make one appear very strange here, at least in my hospital-based profession. I am not representing the "Philadelphia version" as the "correct" one. All I can say is that we wear certain things here and others would really stand out, in a bad way, like pochettes or hats.

I know this sounds ridiculously OCD, but because I have been building my wardrobe (and to highlight weaknesses or excesses) I abridged the famous "minimum wardrobe," which despite my complaints actually has a lot of sense in it and works really well. I also made allowances for certain remarks Alden has made at various times since then regarding the sort of weather we get here, as opposed to Northern Europe, for example recommending a chukka or an extra warm-weather suit.

8 suits
7 jackets + 3
36 shirts
8 pairs of shoes (4 oxford, 2 elegant brogues, 2 double-soled brogues, 1 chukka) +2
1 Barbour jacket + 1
1 sheepskin
4 overcoats

The extra numbers refer to the numbers of garments I possess, not what I am suggesting. I actually think I have too many jackets from a "minimum" point of view, and I regret those (the RTW ones of course). But the shoe recommendation has always thrown me off. I just don't count certain shoes that I have to own but Alden never mentions, like veldtshoen for bad weather. Putting that aside and maybe adding one more for good dress/bad weather, I guess his minimum shoe recommendation is fine, and I do actually regret two Martegani pairs of shoes I bought. They are fine but they do not serve a particular purpose.

The reason I have put so much thought into this is because unlike many of you, who have large wardrobes and are imagining what they would suggest to a younger person, I actually constructed my wardrobe in a year, so a minimum wardrobe is actually a very realistic goal for me. I will never be a clothes horse, however, I am too frugal.

TVD wrote:I do not know whether this qualifies as "plain", but herringbone, birdseye, sharkskin, diagonal self-stripes (I have no idea what the trade name for this fabric is) can all be obtained in dark blue. There are many (normal - vertical) self-stripe cloths as well that should be considered. I have even seen self-checks, although the effect was somewhat raffish.

As a nice variation on this theme, Anderson & Sheppard has as part of their house collection a nice batch of "diamond pattern" worsteds in RAF blue and a few different greys. 12 oz, and stunningly beautiful. Essentially a self-pattern similar to a herringbone in intensity, but arranged in 1 cm squares.

Actually, for anyone inclined to cut to the chase while building a standard repertoire, A&S's house collection is astonishingly well-chosen and distinctive, although the most distinctive entries are not always the most well-chosen.

When Tony Maurizio moved out of 510 Madison, he gave Frank Shattuck several bolts of ancient cloth. One was a diamond pattern from the 1940s (dark and light gray). I can't say it is something I would ever wear, but it is stunning.

Oddly, there is little discussion of fabric weights and drape in my books on menswear. This forum has helped me gain an appreciation for heavier cloth after years of being shown only 8 or 10 oz. by my tailor.

I'm acclimating my body to wearing 13 oz. in the Northern California winter. They initially felt too warm, but I've grown accustomed.

Do any members find 16 oz. worsteds wearable in the 40-50 degree farenheit range?

Does anyone know what a tautz lapel is?

1. To Dr. B: Why would pocket squares and hats "stand out in a bad way?" The average male in NYC doesn't wear them, however, our esteemed members do. It is interesting to note that at our meetings in NYC we have a room full of pochettes (in silk or cotton or linen). If you like them, wear them!

2. To Will: I like heavier cloths, and I have worn 16 oz. in 40-50 degree weather which is still pretty cold. I would wear it in the 50's too with either a shell raincoat or no coat.

Cheers.///

I know you are a lawyer Mark, but there are no more self-concious creatures than doctors, who try to avoid standing out in any way, in general. With my daily wearing of a jacket, I allready stand out to the extent that an attending senior to me said something.

Plus, I want to, as a fashion choice, telegraph my good taste through subtlety and the perfect harmony of my ensemble, not through things that stand out in a crowd like pochettes. Honestly, the only people who wear them here are clothing salesmen at Boyds.

brescd01 wrote:Plus, I want to, as a fashion choice, telegraph my good taste through subtlety and the perfect harmony of my ensemble, not through things that stand out in a crowd like pochettes. Honestly, the only people who wear them here are clothing salesmen at Boyds.

I don't thing there is anything inherently unsubtle about a handkerchief in a coat breast pocket. I have worn one every business day for more than a decade, from just starting out to more senior positions, in incredibly conservative enviornments, in front of the very senior-most people. Occasionally I have taken a bit of gentle ribbing -- roughly half a dozen times in more than a dozen years. My last boss kidded me a bit, but it didn't hurt my career. He was sad to see me go. Most people, I have found, do not even notice.

Dr. B, I guess that the overall guiding rule is to do what is comfortable.

I have never found a pocket square to stand out. Indeed, at many lawyer gatherings I am the only person with a pochette as well as a custom suit. Strange, but I feel naked without one!

Mark Seitelman wrote:Strange, but I feel naked without one!

Me too. I went to work the other day having forgotten mine, and I felt like a slob all day.