"It's all in your head"

[alden]

I know I have told this story a few times, but here it goes again.

A couple decades ago I was visiting the premier men’s shop in Paris wearing a particularly handsome tweed jacket. The shop was top drawer in every respect and had a team of tailors on the premises. My coat was immediately noticed and a few of the sales staff came over to me to see it more closely. After a few minutes, the manager of the store and resident expert on all things sartorial came over as well. “Nice coat!”, he said with some admiration in his voice, “That’a a great tweed. Looks nice and sturdy like old tweeds used to be. Too bad they are so heavy.” I smiled, thanked him and suggested he try my coat on to see if it were too heavy or not. We were about the same size and when he slipped the coat on he said with some surprise, “Oh no, this coat feels very nice to wear. Lovely. It’s stout but nothing over the top.” “What weight cloth do you reckon it is?”, I asked. “Oh it’s got to be at least 400 maybe 450 gms. Pretty heavy for most people.” I reinstalled the coat onto my shoulders as I revealed the truth to him, “That coat is made from an 800 gms Cheviot tweed.” The choir of sales staff gasped in unison “800 gms Tweed! OH MY GOD!” A few of them nearly passed out.

“Yes”, I replied with a grin, “and this little experiment of mine has proven that the difference between 400 gms and 800 gms tweed is all in your head!”

[Screaminmarlon]

The Agnelli glencheck is near that weight and it’s really confortable in the winter

[L.deJong]

The same is true for my 700gms cords.
People, when I tell them the weight, they are flabbergasted.
"You will be in trouble when the sun comes trough". Or "you will regret that fabric choice".
Etc.

Well they are warmer than a 300 gram, but they are actually not warm as they think.

[jahyeti]

same with flannel. which is definitely a warm fabric because of the nap. but an 18 oz flannel is not uncomfortably warmer than a 13 oz. if its a situation that is too warm to wear flannel it most likely will not matter what weight you choose, unless its that paper thin ladies flannel, you will be too hot regardless. but if its a cold day, better to go with the heavier fabric.

[alden]

same with flannel. which is definitely a warm fabric because of the nap. but an 18 oz flannel is not uncomfortably warmer than a 13 oz. if its a situation that is too warm to wear flannel it most likely will not matter what weight you choose, unless its that paper thin ladies flannel, you will be too hot regardless. but if its a cold day, better to go with the heavier fabric.

+1

[jonathans]

So, you're saying don't be afraid to commission a 18 oz Fox Heritage Flannel suit. I was thinking double breasted navy wide chalk stripe

As opposed to the Fox 14 ozs.?

[alden]

So, you're saying don't be afraid to commission a 18 oz Fox Heritage Flannel suit. I was thinking double breasted navy wide chalk stripe

As opposed to the Fox 14 ozs.?

YES

The London Lounge/Fox Flannel cloth was 19 ozs +.....amazing cloth it was.

[davidhuh]

So, you're saying don't be afraid to commission a 18 oz Fox Heritage Flannel suit. I was thinking double breasted navy wide chalk stripe

As opposed to the Fox 14 ozs.?

Dear Jonathans,

certainly not. I have flannels is both weights and prefer the heavier.

Cheers, David

[jonathans]

So, you're saying don't be afraid to commission a 18 oz Fox Heritage Flannel suit. I was thinking double breasted navy wide chalk stripe

As opposed to the Fox 14 ozs.?

Dear Jonathans,

certainly not. I have flannels is both weights and prefer the heavier.

Cheers, David

Thanks,

I am uneasy pulling the trigger on a 18 oz woolen flannel - I'll see the fabric in a few weeks when the tailor visits NYC. I was thinking the 18 oz fox flannel, but he told me he didn't have that book (I asked him if he could get it for his trunk show & he said he would try). Harrisons 14/15 oz woolen seemed like a possible alternative.

Where do you live? How cold does it get there? I live in Washington DC, but don't want to stay in the cold weather climates forever - would 18 oz be only good in climates that snow? I have 2 gray flannel trousers in Minnis 14/15 oz, which I like quite a lot - I was worried they might be too heavy, but am quite happy with the weight (I have never felt like they were too hot, even for in doors with heating).

Mr. Alden has inspired me to make my next commission (after this) a heavy weight tweed jacket - 600 grams!

Best,
Joanthan

[alden]

HI Jonathan

The title of this thread is "It's all in your head" and that is exactly where it is. Once you start wearing proper weight fabrics, you don't notice weight as much as you notice how well you look, how well your clothing drapes and lasts. Oh, and if it's snowing you will feel warmer. Now if you were planning to move to Florida I would have you buy LL linens or Brisa and no flannel at all because flannel is for cold weather territory

If the idea of weight bothers you so much, stay away from flannel, dress worsteds. Buy some London Lounge DD worsted instead. We have blues and gray plains available now. They are 16 ozs and if you like wearing them, you can add an LL flannel in the same weight later.

Cheers

[davidhuh]

I am uneasy pulling the trigger on a 18 oz woolen flannel - I'll see the fabric in a few weeks when the tailor visits NYC. I was thinking the 18 oz fox flannel, but he told me he didn't have that book (I asked him if he could get it for his trunk show & he said he would try). Harrisons 14/15 oz woolen seemed like a possible alternative.

Where do you live? How cold does it get there? I live in Washington DC, but don't want to stay in the cold weather climates forever - would 18 oz be only good in climates that snow? I have 2 gray flannel trousers in Minnis 14/15 oz, which I like quite a lot - I was worried they might be too heavy, but am quite happy with the weight (I have never felt like they were too hot, even for in doors with heating).
Joanthan

Dear Jonathan,

I live in Switzerland where it used to be a bit colder in the past. But this doesn't matter so much. Do you know where English cloth makers traditionally sold a lot of flannel? To Naples, Sicily and Morocco...

To make a heavy flannel wearable, it should be cut generously and give you room to move. Avoid too much padding, especially in the shoulders. I often combine with cashmere waistcoats to drop the coat when inside.

Cheers, David

[jonathans]

I am uneasy pulling the trigger on a 18 oz woolen flannel - I'll see the fabric in a few weeks when the tailor visits NYC. I was thinking the 18 oz fox flannel, but he told me he didn't have that book (I asked him if he could get it for his trunk show & he said he would try). Harrisons 14/15 oz woolen seemed like a possible alternative.

Where do you live? How cold does it get there? I live in Washington DC, but don't want to stay in the cold weather climates forever - would 18 oz be only good in climates that snow? I have 2 gray flannel trousers in Minnis 14/15 oz, which I like quite a lot - I was worried they might be too heavy, but am quite happy with the weight (I have never felt like they were too hot, even for in doors with heating).
Joanthan

Dear Jonathan,

I live in Switzerland where it used to be a bit colder in the past. But this doesn't matter so much. Do you know where English cloth makers traditionally sold a lot of flannel? To Naples, Sicily and Morocco...

To make a heavy flannel wearable, it should be cut generously and give you room to move. Avoid too much padding, especially in the shoulders. I often combine with cashmere waistcoats to drop the coat when inside.

Cheers, David

With heavier fabrics, do you fully line? I could imagine Napoli tailors taking a heavier flannel, & half lining it (which would look kind of cool). It reminds me of a Naples tailor, when asked if you should half line or fully line a winter sports jacket, he replied, "Do you prefer to see a beautiful lady naked or clothed?"

I do walk outside, but I always use an overcoat with lighter fabrics in the winter. But I also don't enjoy layering under a suit (I like to keep it simple, plain shirt, suit, tie & prefer to wear my jackets in doors. I am leaning toward a heavier flannel (but I will decide when I have an opportunity to look at the books next weekend). If I dont do a 18oz flannel, I'll end up with a 14/15 oz flannel (probably Harrisons), so Its not like I will be going with a 9 oz Italian flannel.

[alden]

I'll end up with a 14/15 oz flannel (probably Harrisons), so Its not like I will be going with a 9 oz Italian flannel.

You will probably get 9 ounce Italian in either case. If you want lightweight 14/15 ounces flannel get Minnis or Fox Flannel and make two trousers.

[jonathans]

I'll end up with a 14/15 oz flannel (probably Harrisons), so Its not like I will be going with a 9 oz Italian flannel.

You will probably get 9 ounce Italian in either case. If you want lightweight 14/15 ounces flannel get Minnis or Fox Flannel and make two trousers.

And, ill be back here in a few weeks after the trousers blow out haha.

I have 2 pairs of minnis 15 oz Gray flannel trousers, which I like a lot.I dont have an issue with their weight. I'll probably end up getting 18 oz, but we'll see.

Thanks for your advice.

[alden]

The other option is to wait, put another project up for this year, one that you have "exceptional" cloth for and let's see if we can make the LL flannel in a classic wide chalkstripe. I would LOVE to make one in navy blue, one in English gray, one in gray and one in brown just like I did for the LL/Fox Flannel book.

But you might not like LL flannel because its heritage goes way back. There is nothing soft about it. No cashmere in it. It has the rustic, thick, rough hand of traditional flannels from the 30s. And it wears like a worsted. You won't need two trousers (but make them anyway.)

Cheers