A three nations bespoke conversation

[smoothjazzone]

Luk-cha:

In tailoring, the difference between a well-fitting and a poor fitting garment may be a quarter inch. In shoes, differences come down to millimeters -- and as such make it harder to get the shoe lasts right. Further, I believe, the fittings are useful in spotting big differences and not the small problems.

Its really hard to describe shoe fit issues -- I am sure I will do a terrible job but here goes:

> Depending on the time, my shoes have been too tight (could not get my foot in) to loose mainly in the widest part of the foot from base of the big toe to the little toe (makes shoe looks sleeker if narrow) and at the waist and at the heel

> Cleverley shoes have a very rounded and curved heel and grip you on the heel and the waist -- Tony's dont to the same degree -- when you wear a Cleverley shoe, you can almost hear your shoe plopping in and there is no excess anywhere

There are people who can wear RTW shoes no problem -- I don't fall into that category and as such have been a Cleverley customer since I first started working. As a friend recently said -- "the Cleverley lasts just feel more bespoke."

To Tony's credit -- he has not given up either and has been helpful in modifying the shoes to make them fit better. And I definitely plan to get more shoes from him once we get these issues resolved.

dE -- to your comments below I would only say that fit is paramount when it comes to shoes because even more so than a poorly fitting jacket -- its hard to be elegant when you wince in pain every time you take a step.

[luk-cha]

SJ

thank you for your explination it give me a clearer picture as to your issues with them. from the fitting stage with my G&G's the issues you hve i did not, but like you said i might be i have an easier foot to fit but time permiting i think i will have to try someone like clerverley or foster and son to see if there is a major issue!

[zjpj]

My G&G bespokes fit perfectly right out of the box. There were extremely minor issues on the first fitting. Of course that isn't going to happen every time, and, as with any bespoke item, some adjustments may be necessary in some case. But the fact that adjustments are necessary at all for some people does not lead to the conclusion that G&G bespoke shoes "don't fit well." That would be ridiculous. Indeed, TG is working to resolve the fit issues. Manton's most recent Lobb Paris bespokes had to be thrown away and entirely new shoes had to be made. That was after a fitting, too. From this one incident, can we conclude Lobb Paris doesn't fit well? Of course not, they made him shoes that fit perfectly on the second attempt. If bespoke makers stick with you ill-fitting goods and don't correct issues, then perhaps that conclusion is justified. But when they are clearly committed to resolving fit problems that invariably arise with a custom product, then I think the conclusion is, at the very least, premature.

[zjpj]

SJ

thank you for your explination it give me a clearer picture as to your issues with them. from the fitting stage with my G&G's the issues you hve i did not, but like you said i might be i have an easier foot to fit but time permiting i think i will have to try someone like clerverley or foster and son to see if there is a major issue!

No, it's not that you have an easier foot - I have a very difficult foot. It's that by and large, regardless of how many measurements you take, you can never truly predict how an item will fit until it is tried on or even worn for several days. This is true for tailored clothing and shoes. There's a huge element of luck involved. If great artisans could take your measurements and make a perfect product every time, we wouldn't need fittings, would we? The fact is that custom clothing is an art, not a science. If you are lucky enough, as I have been on occassion, to have an artisan produce an almost-perfect piece on the first try, then that's great. If, as I have also experienced, you have had to have further adjustments made months after the "final" product has been delivered, then that's also the nature of the beast.