MTM Question

[mkirkhope]

Hi All,

Have read the forums for a while but this is my first post. Please excuse me that my question is regarding MTM rather than bespoke.

While I am considering going full bespoke soon, the finances I have available dictates that most of my suits (although I don't have many) are MTM or OTR with alterations made.

I am 6'5" so MTM should in theory be a useful service for me as its hard to find OTR suits that even remotely fit well. However, a few of my MTM suits (from well-known places) have turned out really badly and even after further alterations have not looked good at all. I have never actually even worn one of them as it was still so bad after 4 attempts by the store to make it fit better. I received a part refund of what I paid.

The problems seems to lie in the fact that for a single breasted, the buttons are always way too high up. On a 2 button, the bottom button is sometimes 4 inches or so above high-waisted trousers. This seems to make the whole front of the coat look strange and I think makes me look taller than I am. The back tends to look good.

So my question is: given that MTM services use a 'block' which gets altered rather than creating from scratch, will I always be stuck with this button issue or will some houses be able to alter the positions of these as part of the block? i.e. are they able to move around every component or can they only leave the buttons where they are but lengthen the bottom of the coat to try and get the correct length?

Overall, my experience of MTM has not been great despite trying several places, and in fact I have a cheap OTR M&S suit which fits me better than any of my MTM's and gets more compliments than any of the MTM's.

At my height, is MTM a waste of time? Should I really be going for either a full bespoke or trying to find a decent fitting OTR? I feel that paying 800 quid etc for a MTM at my size is just throwing money away.

Any thoughts on all of this much appreciated, or recommendations of places that may do MTM well for my size.

Cheers
Matt

[old henry]

Matt , I think that you have answered your own question. Frank.

[DFR]

Not too sure if you have left anything to answer but this is a bespoke forum and I certainly do not have any experience of MTM which I really believe to be dubious at best unless you have some luck and a decent fitter.

[cinema]

Try Graham Browne near St Paul's. I'm sure they could offer full bespoke for just a little more than one of your £800 MTM.

I have recently ordered a suit and whilst I have yet to see the final product myself, several people have written favourably about their quality for the price.

[Man at C&A]

Thank goodness, at last a positive reply! I've had a couple of MTM horrors but I've been more than happy with blazers from Couch & Hoskins (a proper tailoring shop in Eastcheap who also offer a 'personal' service as a cheaper alternative to bespoke) and suits from Cad & The Dandy.

As a result I've dipped my toe into the bespoke arena with C&TD; I'm waiting on a first fitting and in a few weeks hopefully I'll be able to post photos of MTM and bespoke from the same house, and in the same style.

[Mark Seitelman]

MTM is not a waste of time. You have to find a retailer and maker that works for you, and then stick with them.

Some of the bespoke tailors work very closely with the MTM factory, and they are able to write-up an order which will yield an excellently fitting suit. The MTM factory has to have the ability to deviate from its block pattern and provide customization.

Also, the old computer rule of GIGO applies, i.e., "garbage in, garbage out." If the order is not written properly for YOU, then you will get a substandard suit.

Since you live in London, there should be some excellent "off the Row" choices for both MTM and bespoke.

Good luck.

[old henry]

Mark , you are so right. The problem is , most likely , not the factory , it is the salesman measuring and filling out the form. Any one can take chest waste seat measures. It is the attitude of the customers build {stoop, erect , sway back, square , slope} that throws the monkey wrench. Most MTM factories today are computerized. If the tailor-fitter understands the computers program and how to recognize body structure and fills out the form accordingly and corrects the form after the first suit , then MTM can be good. It better be , because that is where the world is going.. Frank

[Mark Seitelman]

Frank, Exhibit A, is a well known tailor in New York City.

He offers both full bespoke and MTM. His MTM is made in one of the best factories in the USA.

He told me that he knows the capabilities of the MTM factory, and he is most specific in writing the order. He also told me that the factory follows his instructions very carefully.

I know another tailor, outside New York, who offers three options: MTM, custom cut in the shop with less handwork, and full bespoke with full handwork.

[alden]

At my height, is MTM a waste of time?

At your height it is. Yes.

MTM is fine for most men, those who are not at either end of the size extreme or with other difficult fitting characteristics. The main drive for MTM as opposed to RTW is the ability to chose a fabric and some details. The fit is going to wind up being as standardized as RTW. And Frank has explained why: the computers cannot account for particularities of a build, stance or posture the way a skilled craftsman can. There is a reason why these products are at very different price points.

You'll be better off in the long run finding a tailor to work with. Buy good fabrics and the suit will last a long time. And get a few suits made before it is too late and MTM is the only option left.

Mark's idea is a good one for those with a more average build, choose an MTM maker who is also a real tailor.

Michael

[medtech_expat]

Hello Matt-

It sounds from your description that your MTM projects thus far have been far off the mark. In my own experience, unless the RTW coat of any particular house fits you reasonably well, escalating to MTM is unlikely to yield appreciably better results.

I would suggest that bespoke is your only viable option. If budget is an issue, there are a number of off-Row alternatives you can research. I do not have direct experience with these myself, although perhaps the veteran LL members can chime in here.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Cheers,
Eddie

[Mark Seitelman]

Sometimes MTM can be a success, and sometimes a failure. The same holds for bespoke.

For example, the original poster is very tall.

MTM maker "A" may be unable to accomodate him because even its "extra long" model would be too short. Either maker "A" would refuse the order or make a suit with irregular proportions (e.g., button and pocket placement). This type of maker does not offer much in the way of customization. Essentially, you are getting a stock model with few changes.

On the other hand, MTM maker "B" might have a model for an "extra-extra long". Or MTM maker "B" would make a new pattern from scratch.

Examples of MTM maker "B":

1. Hickey Freeman. I recall one of the managers at Saks Fifth Avenue telling a very heavy customer that Hickey Freeman could accomodate him since it had a vast library of models built over decades.

2. Oxxford. It also has a history of experience with all sorts of physiques, but it will make a pattern from scratch if necessary. I know a clothier who is very tall and big. Oxxford makes excellent suits for him and his clients.

In sum, each MTM maker is different. Find one that works well with you, and stick with them. The same applies to bespoke.

Good luck.

[mkirkhope]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone, much appreciated.

I'll either try and find a MTM house that has experience of accomodating my size or go to an off the row tailor and go bespoke.

I think for someone of my height, the concept of MTM seems like a dream come true where for not a crazy amount of money you can get something that fits. In reality, many of them seem to turn out like RTW but with some 'parts' that have been made an appropriate length.

Thanks again for the advice.

Matt

[cdo]

Has anyone tried Maurice Sedwell's MTM suit programme? Although the recollection of my conversation with them about this is now hazy at best, I seem to remember that they do the measuring and fitting in-house but farm out the tailoring elsewhere. From personal experience with their full bespoke service, I find that they are almost obsessive during fittings over the tiniest details. Knowing the guys there, I can easily imagine a lot of this fitting rigour will go into their MTM suits.

- C

[simonc]

Welcome Matt - I'm 6ft 3in and 155lbs so I can appreciate your situation more than most. I think others have given you sound advice - there are a number of off-Row tailors who can offer you what amounts to full bespoke for little more than you'll pay for MTM (I'm guessing £6-700 for MTM) - just a couple of starter suggestions would be Graham Browne, C. Antoniou or George of Cleveland Street (all three used by members of this forum). I certainly wouldn't expect to get positive results from MTM if you've failed to do so up to this point.

On the other hand, if you have an order in progress with C&TD, and success with C&H, then there is merit in continuing with them.