The London Lounge

The above is an example of the kind of presentation we see all too often in the media and on the streets of London these days. It’s the “I’m an individual and I refuse to wear a tie!” fashion inspired by a famous designer whose name will not be mentioned. Of course, the minute a trend takes hold and everyone is following it like sheep, it ceases to be an expression of individuality.

Be that as it may, let’s look at the practical aspects of tieless behavior and judge it on its aesthetic merits. This BBC journalist has a very long and ungainly neck. Closing the shirt's collar to cover his giraffe like qualities would do him a world of good. If you think his pale face is offsetting feast your eyes on the burgeoning swatch of Ivory white skin showing at the base of his neck and down to the opening of the shirt. It’s the kind of two tone English racing white we see everywhere these days.

Now imagine the collar of this man’s shirt being closed to hide his ugly neck (rather than featuring it.) And imagine a colorful strip of silk fashioned into a tie to enliven the deathly pale. A good choice of color could bring out the color of his eyes and warm the expression in his face. He might even be a good looking man, if only he would give himself a chance. But to do that he should stop following fashions led by others and grow to understand himself. What a ludicrous suggestion!

Cheers

M Alden

The sportsmen and politicians are at it and the rest follow suit: they recognize that the masses who follow the changing fortunes of Posh 'n' Becks and Wayne Rooney and so on, see ties as 'elitist' and, therefore, to be avoided, with the aim of 'upping' ratings and votes. This is all regardless of the obvious personal consequences, evident here.
NJS

NJS

"Aussi toute mode qui a pour but un mensonge est essentiellement passagere et de mauvais gout."

H. de Balzac

(Also any trend of fashion founded on lies is essentially temporary and of bad taste.)

Yes but it goes deeper than that because people now trade even personal preferences for an image that they believe that they can sell. They demonstrate that they have no respect for themselves and none for their audience as they condescend to expect that their audience actually wants politicians and newsreaders looking as though they have been dragged through a hedge backwards.
NJS

although i concede your stylistic point: i think that you gentlemen are missing one causality point: it isnt just mindless ignorance responsible-- a lot of men simply don't like wearing ties and now it has just become more acceptable `not to do so as many public figures have ditched them

i personally never cared for the sensation of a closed collar, but i've grown accustomed to it over the years.
furthermore, a lot of men are also happy to do away with an additional expense and hassle.

Merc, I think those men you write about in reality do like to wear ties - they just don't know it They never bothered to think WHY wear a tie and never considered it IN ITSELF, for its own merits - only as a social symbol (mostly negative, too). Once they understand, in my experience not only do they take up wearing ties, but they become collectors.
The additional hassle and expense argument is unconvincing, since "the tieless" often spend more money on other fashionable impedimenta.

I entirely agree, Costi: that ties are uncomfortable or too expensive is just nonsense. They are uncomfortable only if the collar doesn't fit or it isn't tied properly. As for the cost: I have ties that are probably 50 years old. I am sure that you are right that it is the social symbolism of the tie: the badge of the Great Oppressors, the rulers of the class system and so on that puts some people off. They need to hang a bit looser and so do their ties .

I believe that some of the problem has been the obsession with youth over the last forty years. Rather than presenting themselves as mature, successful, developed individuals many men follow the fashions of their children in order to try to persuade the observer that they are "current and "on trend". In so doing they make themselves look ridiculous and, most likely, embarass their children too.
I see the problem most in the creative industries where, contrary to expectation, you will meet some of the worst dressed people on the planet, all exhibiting a total lack of imagination when it comes to dressing. The young wear Superdry t-shirts and jeans hanging off their nether regions, and I challenge someone to find a high-profile signature architect who wears anything other than head-to-toe black. **
Conversely the movement in the legal and accounting professions in London post credit-crunch has been an apparent return to formality with dress-down-Friday a thing of the past thankfully.

** If anyone chooses to take up the challenge I exclude the king of minimalism, John Pawson, who wears nothing but grey flannels, white shirts and cream sweaters

AH

A.Hacking wrote:I challenge someone to find a high-profile signature architect who wears anything other than head-to-toe black.

Haha! True... and eventual exceptions only confirm the rule.

There are some excellent observations and criticism here. I can understand the various motives you have identified. But what I cannot understand is how a man can get up in the morning and not want to take the world by the throat and present himself every second of the day in the best possible way? Life is too short. Make an impact every day. Present yourself in the best way you know how.

If you are latin, with a ruddy or olive complexion, natural good looks, slim, muscular, young and with a few solid depilatory treatments behind you, maybe you could go around with your shirt undone to the navel. But if you are not so well endowed, cover it up! As my grandfather used to say, “Men should be well covered.” And why is this? It may be because we tend to be frightful when uncovered.

The message is to look great, and great things will happen to you.

Cheers

Michael Alden

I have come across an iPhone application called "How to tie a tie". Useful, right? But here is the presentation text in the Appstore:

“How often do you face the challenge of tying a necktie?” – oh, every day, you are tempted to answer in good faith.
“Most probably, not very often.” – the author answers his own question, which turns out to have been rhetorical…
He goes on: “So many people would agree that making a tie is a big problem”. It is?
But he is here to save you: “The new application How Tot Tie a Necktie will help you to come through this challenge” – a challenge, really?! – “and easily tie one of the 12 tie knots just in a couple of minutes”. 12 knots?! What is this, fishing?
“And you won’t need any help of your wife or any other person.” Other person? What other person? – the helping wife may wonder…
“Just follow these simle instructions and pictures and you’ll be able to tie a pretty tie knot on your own!”

And you know what? I am afraid the developer of this application knows his audience very well…

I M Pei
Frank Gehry
David Chipperfield
Richard Rogers
Renzo Piano
Fumihiko Maki
Richard Meier
Tadao Ando
...

Actually the only ones fond of black that come to mind are Herzog & de Meuron, and if we include women, Zaha Hadid. But then again, I don't know much about architects, dead or alive.

edit: I forgot that Peter Marino likes black, but it's a very specific kind of black, à la Christopher Street...

Shredder you have bested me.That will teach me to make sweeping generalisations. Well done Sir.

Lord Foster

He still needs a tie though....

storeynicholas wrote:I entirely agree, Costi: that ties are uncomfortable or too expensive is just nonsense. They are uncomfortable only if the collar doesn't fit or it isn't tied properly. As for the cost: I have ties that are probably 50 years old. I am sure that you are right that it is the social symbolism of the tie: the badge of the Great Oppressors, the rulers of the class system and so on that puts some people off. They need to hang a bit looser and so do their ties .

i disagree. it may be nonsense for you or for me but not for a a lot of people. we have suits made, so a $50-$90 tie is cheap and perhaps inconsequential by comparison (although i still find a $150 tie expensive, despite paying $400 for pants). But a $50-$90 tie is not cheap for everybody.

I worked with and have known a number (about a dozen im thinking of across the years) of younger men (under 30, and generally in non Finance and non-legal professions) in white collar jobs over the last decade, and they had limited clothing budgets. Their income levels wouldn't support much more (in NYC especially), but also they had other priorities in terms of allocating their disposable income (drinking and chasing girls seemed to be up there for more than a few of them). (And they were thrilled when they could find those awful square kenneth cole shoes on a clearance for $75!). Their wardrobes for work consisted of dockers, gap khakis, or in the case of one guy, Dickies and Carhartt work pants. Almost all of them wore only washable cotton pants as being both easier to deal with and cheaper, despite the fact that after 9 or 10 washes they looked pretty misshapen and faded. Most of them had 1 or at most 2 suits, and they only wore them to meetings outside the office (about once every 6-8 weeks) and they averaged 1-2 ties each, which i can recall more than one of them stating they got them at century 21 in NY, where most of the ties are under $30 and some of the real garbage is $9.99. They knew they were garbage but saw no reason to pay more.

And that was it.

They didnt want to spend any more money than that, both out of choice and out of limited budgets and they didn't really care for ties and found them a giant hassle and a waste of money. They generally thought that ties were stuffy and ridiculous, but at least conceded wearing a tie was necessary for a job interview.

Although there are plenty of 'hipsters' in NY wearing skinny suits with peg leg pants and skinny ties, that crowd is actually very small in number despite seeming large in the magazines, the TV shows, and the anecdotes---(similarly those men spending a lot of other money on fashion accessories are a small minority with the exxception of certain neighborhoods in Manhattan)--they do not represent the bulk of regular men here --------and regular guys often cant be bothered- dont want to be bothered and don't want the expense. they dont want to take the time to learn

The whole 'rule of the opressor thing' is thinking that is 30 years out of date--- the shift to casual has allowed men who don't want the bother or expense --to be perfectly acceptable to msot people, even if your avergae person recognizes that there are times such attire really is inappropriate, most of the time in the work place people don't blink an eye, unless you come in in cut-off shorts!

Here's an semi-related anecdote:
And in fact, one of these gentlemen, who is now in his 30's and interviewing for jobs outside of NY, called me up last week and told me about his job interviewing experience. (I have given him a few career and wardrobe pointers over the years). He is interviewing for a mid-level financial analyst job, but far from wall street and not really dealing with many retail clients. He told me he wears a suit and tie (he only has 1 suit, and 2 spare blazers) to every meeeting and interview (although not all that great a suit) --and of the 8 or 9 companies he has been into, he has been the only one present in anything better than khakis, and in one office everyone was wearing sandals.