The London Lounge

I am considering commissioning a Navy Blue DB Peacoat...with an Ashtrakan fur collar

I have read that Melton wool is the traditional cloth for a Navy Peacoat

I received samples today from: http://www.he-box.co.uk/index.htm

I thought that 32oz Melton wool was the traditional weight for a Peacoat. But I was sent a Navy and a gorgeous Blue Melton in the 560gram/18oz range. But they also sent me a 32oz Navy Cavalry Twill
What is Melton wool?

Personally I liked the 560gram Blue Melton and might desire it for a winter suit. Is Melton wool appropriate for a 3 piece suit?

Is Cavalry Twill...in a 32oz, a suitable alternative to a 32oz Melton wool...for a DB Navy Peacoat?

I also welcome members experiences with the quality of H.E. Box cloths...their prices are quite affordable...but how do they compare to other Huddersfield made cloths

Last but not least: Where can I find Navy or Black Ashtrakan.
Do I find the real stuff or is imitation version the only socially acceptable version? Where can I find such fur/cloth?

For "Astrakhan", you are looking for the skin of the Karakul lamb. The younger the lamb, the tighter the curls.

A cheap way to get hold of this material for collars is to recycle an old coat; just go to EBay and search for "Persian Lamb", "Astrakhan" or "Karakul". It may only cost you $50 to get skins for acceptable collars for several garments. The usual colours are black, silver, dark grey and occasionally brown.

The best karakul is harvested from the foetus, that is, before it is born.

True Shredder, but in such cases the breeders slaughter both the ewe and the foetus, and I have some problems with this on welfare grounds.

Yes, the mother is included in the COGS; it is a bit messier than skinning a newborn.

I can understand and respect certain Eastern religions that are against all killing. But I have never really got to grips with the whimsical distinctions between others' preferences for the the preservation of the life of creature A (such as a cuddly lamb), but the very ready extinction of creature B (a wasp). Moreover, if you find a cache of the larvae of the mosquito that carries the breakbone fever virus, what do you do? You kill them. It's all to do with human benefit or human risk: the lamb is cuddly and harmless and letting it live can give human pleasure to person X but person Y might feel more gratification in having a top grade karakul coat collar! Where there are extinction issues, there is a slight difference because mankind seems to think that the preservation of endangered species is a benefit - but, at the end of the day, it is a benefit to mankind in preserving diversity of life. The animals themselves are beside the point.

Moreover, not many humans seem to agonize over castrating animals so that they do not become inconvenient - tom cats caterwauling and spraying and fighting - but it's arguably brutal; even if the consequence of acquiescing in a policy of laissez faire might be (as recently with me) a bite through the hand when separating fighting toms!

If the imitation stuff looks good, looks similar to the real stuff, and is competitively priced...I'll go for it

I just feel a tad uneasy wearing the real stuff if it meant they had to kill a lamb, and its mom, while the baby lamb was still in the fetus. If they just sheared (did I spell it right???) it off the baby lamb after it was born...and without hurting its mom, then its just wool to me

With that aside, besides looking for vintage stuff, I still am looking for a source for the stuff...and still hope someone here can help

I don't like the look of astrakan that much, but I sure love the taste of lamb.... It's never bothered me to eat lamb.

I don't think it's a binary thing. For instance, even without religions, people might make a difference between
- necessity (killer mosquito; or fried locusts if you'd otherwise starve) and pleasure (butterfly collection, competitive swatting), with the whole range in between, eg annoyance (biting midges, loud houseflies)
- levels of development (cattle, fowl, insects), or biological nearness to the human species (pigs, I hear)

ay329 wrote:I just feel a tad uneasy wearing the real stuff if it meant they had to kill a lamb, and its mom, while the baby lamb was still in the fetus. If they just sheared (did I spell it right???) it off the baby lamb after it was born...and without hurting its mom, then its just wool to me

They are skinned, so the real thing is not for you.

All the leather you wear is there anyway, as a byproduct of the meat industry. They'd have to throw it away otherwise.
All the meat &.

storeynicholas wrote:I can understand and respect certain Eastern religions that are against all killing.

One of them (not really that much Eastern, but mostly concentrated east of the Catholic world anyway) puts it nicely: you can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once. Of course, it's more of a metaphor, but in the case of karakul it becomes quite literal.
I think the farther we live from nature, the more sensitive we are to death. A farmer doesn't have the faintest conscience problem in getting his hands on a chicken and cutting its head off. A city boy might faint at the sight of the "poor thing" agonizing, but will surely forget the scene by dinner time and gladly eat the coq au vin!

Edward Bainbridge wrote:...biological nearness to the human species (pigs, I hear)

Indeed! Pigs (and boars), bears and lions kill, too (like we do), so perhaps that's another reason why we don't feel so bad about killing them (even for pleasure, for those who find it). While the unborn lamb conjures up religious images and its innocence (why is a grown ram any less innocent?) melts our hearts.

Edward Bainbridge wrote:All the leather you wear is there anyway, as a byproduct of the meat industry. They'd have to throw it away otherwise.

Mostly true, though I have never heard of Peccary stew...

Hello - I, too, am considering comissioning a peacoat by someone on the Row. Which tailors have the military history to do it well?