Greetings my fellow members.
I've spent the last couple years as a quiet member of this community, learning from the esteemed gentlemen of the Lounge of whom have kindly shared and reposited their wisdom in the pages of this forum. It is to them, and Mr. Michael Alden that I owe my gratitude for setting me off to a good start, both in helping me understand masculine style and coming to my own, and also in building an enduring wardrobe that will take me through my years.
Since becoming a member of the Lounge, I have had experience with a small handful of bespoke projects, and it's been a lot of fun so far. But alas, the time has come for me to begin a very special undertaking that I've looked forward to for quite a while now—my first dinner suit.
The occasion is for a wedding; my own.
It be will during the next summertime, in Canada (yes, it does get quite hot), and will likely be held during the evening. I'm looking to have something that can last a lifetime, both in style and in make.
My thoughts thus far:
Cloth: 10oz and up, Midnight blue fresco, or a similar cloth of a crisp and open weave. For myself, It is most likely my career will be taking me to warmer climes, and thus opportunities for attending black-tie events will likely be in warmer weather which explains my opting for a cool-wearing cloth.
Jacket: Single-button, single-breasted, shawl collar, silk or grossgain facings in either black or a midnight blue that is slightly darker than the cloth of the jacket, four-button sleeves with cloth-covered sleeve buttons in match with the facings.
Trousers: Same cloth as the coat, but with a stripe along the side in the same material as the facings.
Where I'm not sure:
1. Do the jettings of the jacket side pockets take the same material as the facings, and does this diminish the simplicity and elegance of an otherwise simple, and well-cut coat?
2. Should the coat have a breast pocket?
3. Given the activities involved during black-tie events, are pockets for dinner suit trousers standard, useful or even necessary?
4. Is this an opportunity to opt for fish-back, high-waisted trousers or will the more contemporary trouser cut with side-tab adjusters or side tabs be sufficient when worn with a cummerbund?
5. Would a plain white poplin, spread-collar shirt that takes studs and links be appropriate to keep the overall ensemble minimal and simple? And would linen be an acceptable alternative for the shirting cloth during very hot weather?
My advanced thanks for your kind answers, ideas and suggestions,
—BGE
Getting the dinner suit right
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Simon A
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! I hope it will be a wonderful event.
It sounds like a very nice project, and the choices you have made regarding fabric and style sound very reasonable. You could have the jacket and trousers made unlined for greater comfort in the heat.
Regarding fish tail for braces or not, I find it easier to keep everything at its correct level (trousers and cummerbund) when wearing braces, particularly if there is vigourous dancing going on. It is a relief not to be hitching things up throughout an evening, you will always be photo-ready, and it is common practice for people to wear braces with dinner suit so it will raise no eyebrows. High waisted trousers in a dinner suit look very elegant in my opinion, but you have to be happy with it. There are some excellent pictures in the forum to give you ideas of how it may look.
A breast pocket gives you somewhere to stuff your pocket handkerchief, I think such pockets are pretty much ubiquitous on dinner jackets.
It sounds like a very nice project, and the choices you have made regarding fabric and style sound very reasonable. You could have the jacket and trousers made unlined for greater comfort in the heat.
Regarding fish tail for braces or not, I find it easier to keep everything at its correct level (trousers and cummerbund) when wearing braces, particularly if there is vigourous dancing going on. It is a relief not to be hitching things up throughout an evening, you will always be photo-ready, and it is common practice for people to wear braces with dinner suit so it will raise no eyebrows. High waisted trousers in a dinner suit look very elegant in my opinion, but you have to be happy with it. There are some excellent pictures in the forum to give you ideas of how it may look.
A breast pocket gives you somewhere to stuff your pocket handkerchief, I think such pockets are pretty much ubiquitous on dinner jackets.
Even Daniel Craig's single-breasted Brioni dinner suit in Casino Royale, worn with slim trousers and neither cummerbund nor vest, was worn with white watered-silk braces with braided tabs!
I am in the market for a similar outfit...but am unsure if I desire a tuxedo or a white tie outfit instead
As to cloth, I'm focused on a Midnight blue cloth (not a fresco) in the 13oz/400gram range. Smith, H. Lesser & another mystery Huddersfield mill's cloth are in the running. I have no desire for a flimsy cloth at 10oz...let alone an open weave variety. I find 13oz to be the industry standard for bespoke commissions and have found nothing out there over 400 grams.
Single button (Huntsman style), single breasted shawl lapel jacket seems awesome paired with a matching double breasted 4 button shawl lapel vest. Besides with the vest, I would rarely have the need to button my jacket
Others have noted that grossgrain trimmings for the jackets lapels....not satin, is the preferred choice for the bespoke client. Was referred to Richard Weldon trimmings for my tailor to acquire the grossgrain stuff. http://www.richardjamesweldon.com/
As to trousers...I would keep it simple, no fish back tails
As to cloth, I'm focused on a Midnight blue cloth (not a fresco) in the 13oz/400gram range. Smith, H. Lesser & another mystery Huddersfield mill's cloth are in the running. I have no desire for a flimsy cloth at 10oz...let alone an open weave variety. I find 13oz to be the industry standard for bespoke commissions and have found nothing out there over 400 grams.
Single button (Huntsman style), single breasted shawl lapel jacket seems awesome paired with a matching double breasted 4 button shawl lapel vest. Besides with the vest, I would rarely have the need to button my jacket
Others have noted that grossgrain trimmings for the jackets lapels....not satin, is the preferred choice for the bespoke client. Was referred to Richard Weldon trimmings for my tailor to acquire the grossgrain stuff. http://www.richardjamesweldon.com/
As to trousers...I would keep it simple, no fish back tails
Dear BGE,
Welcome into the spotlight and I hope you will benefit even more from your active presence in the Lounge.
In my experience a DB dinner coat is more practical and wears cooler in warm weather because it allows you to do away with the waistcoat / cummerbund. The coat's overlap is not nearly as warm-wearing as another layer around your waist. The coat may have peak lapels or a shawl collar, as you prefer, even in the DB configuration. The open weave cloth sounds like a good idea and you may go up in weight if you choose such a cloth without fear that it will wear hotter.
I agree that brace trousers are advisable; whether you prefer them with a straight top or fishtail back is your decision. In theory the dinner coat never comes off so nobody will see how your trousers are made. In practice, if and when the dinner coat does come off, people usually don't notice much anymore...
Breast pocket yes, definitely. Jettings and welt in self cloth, no doubt. No need for back pockets on your trousers - you can keep what you need in your coat.
The studs on the turndown collar shirt are optional, you may opt for hidden buttons. I do wear white linen with my dinner clothes in summer and it looks and feels great, provided the DB coat stays on and all that shows is a bit of the chest, the collar and the cuffs.
Welcome into the spotlight and I hope you will benefit even more from your active presence in the Lounge.
In my experience a DB dinner coat is more practical and wears cooler in warm weather because it allows you to do away with the waistcoat / cummerbund. The coat's overlap is not nearly as warm-wearing as another layer around your waist. The coat may have peak lapels or a shawl collar, as you prefer, even in the DB configuration. The open weave cloth sounds like a good idea and you may go up in weight if you choose such a cloth without fear that it will wear hotter.
I agree that brace trousers are advisable; whether you prefer them with a straight top or fishtail back is your decision. In theory the dinner coat never comes off so nobody will see how your trousers are made. In practice, if and when the dinner coat does come off, people usually don't notice much anymore...
Breast pocket yes, definitely. Jettings and welt in self cloth, no doubt. No need for back pockets on your trousers - you can keep what you need in your coat.
The studs on the turndown collar shirt are optional, you may opt for hidden buttons. I do wear white linen with my dinner clothes in summer and it looks and feels great, provided the DB coat stays on and all that shows is a bit of the chest, the collar and the cuffs.
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Jordan Marc
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:59 pm
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The white moire silk braces with polished brass clips and white braided ends worn by Daniel Craig in Casino Royale were made by Albert Thurston. Quite good-looking. For those who prefer dark braces for their black-tie ensemble, Brooks Brothers used to carry black moire silk braces flanked on either side with white moire silk borders that wrapped around the backs, polished brass clips and black braided ends.
Check both sources to see if either is still available. Two or three pairs of braces are all you really need for evening wear, the third being made of midnight blue moire silk. That's assuming your tailor is willing to make you a pair in blue.
JMB
Check both sources to see if either is still available. Two or three pairs of braces are all you really need for evening wear, the third being made of midnight blue moire silk. That's assuming your tailor is willing to make you a pair in blue.
JMB
Dear gents,
Many thanks for the warm welcome. Visiting the Lounge has always had a comforting feeling of being home to me. Your kind responses make this even more so.
Simon A: You bring up a very compelling point for braced trousers, especially with an occasion and evening where being present, and in the moment is of such great importance. Fussing with the little things such as hitching/riding trousers should be the last thing on one's mind. I shall also make a push for unlined with the trousers, and possibly half-lined with the coat depending on the cloth I do end up with.
ay329: I share your sentiment in having a general preference for heavier cloth. For my dinner suit however, I think it will come down to a matter of what's available with the maker of my project. I have found that it is indeed, quite difficult to find a good variety and decent selection of the more substantial cloths where I live.
Re: the trimmings: I've been leaning towards grosgrain for the facings as well, especially for durability's sake—so many thanks for the link for the Richard Weldon trimmings—I shall give them a look.
I do hope your project turns out nicely for you as well—black tie or white tie.
Costi: I am now giving serious consideration to the possibility of going with a double breasted shawl lapel. It makes perfect sense to me as it removes all the potential fussing about with a cummerbund and waistcoat not to mention that it will wear cooler. The end result of the DB route I think should make for an even more elegant-wearing ensemble. What I end up going with from this point, will likely be determined by how well the maker can execute this configuration. (the DB route being my primary preference)
Thank you also for clearing up my thoughts re: the jettings. I have seen them executed beautifully on some coats with the facing material, but have always thought in the back of my head that, beautiful as it may be—it still somehow took a little away from the overall simplicity and elegance of the ensemble. Funny how that works, no?
Re: braces, to couch, and Jordan Marc's point, I can confirm the moire braces from Thurston are indeed very dashing, as I am fortunate enough to possess one of these in black.
Cheers,
and 'til the next time.
—BGE
Many thanks for the warm welcome. Visiting the Lounge has always had a comforting feeling of being home to me. Your kind responses make this even more so.
Simon A: You bring up a very compelling point for braced trousers, especially with an occasion and evening where being present, and in the moment is of such great importance. Fussing with the little things such as hitching/riding trousers should be the last thing on one's mind. I shall also make a push for unlined with the trousers, and possibly half-lined with the coat depending on the cloth I do end up with.
ay329: I share your sentiment in having a general preference for heavier cloth. For my dinner suit however, I think it will come down to a matter of what's available with the maker of my project. I have found that it is indeed, quite difficult to find a good variety and decent selection of the more substantial cloths where I live.
Re: the trimmings: I've been leaning towards grosgrain for the facings as well, especially for durability's sake—so many thanks for the link for the Richard Weldon trimmings—I shall give them a look.
I do hope your project turns out nicely for you as well—black tie or white tie.
Costi: I am now giving serious consideration to the possibility of going with a double breasted shawl lapel. It makes perfect sense to me as it removes all the potential fussing about with a cummerbund and waistcoat not to mention that it will wear cooler. The end result of the DB route I think should make for an even more elegant-wearing ensemble. What I end up going with from this point, will likely be determined by how well the maker can execute this configuration. (the DB route being my primary preference)
Thank you also for clearing up my thoughts re: the jettings. I have seen them executed beautifully on some coats with the facing material, but have always thought in the back of my head that, beautiful as it may be—it still somehow took a little away from the overall simplicity and elegance of the ensemble. Funny how that works, no?
Re: braces, to couch, and Jordan Marc's point, I can confirm the moire braces from Thurston are indeed very dashing, as I am fortunate enough to possess one of these in black.
Cheers,
and 'til the next time.
—BGE
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Edward Bainbridge
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:31 pm
- Contact:
Just a small remark: if you have a white dinner jacket as well and don't want to buy two pairs of formal braces, white ones offer themselves as they don't shine through the lighter coat.
Such a suit would be correct as long as the wedding is in the evening - ie after 1830.
The midnight blue may not be to everyone's liking but can look elegant. You may find it restrictive though for future functions where the classic black is better.
On detail
The open weave cloth would look wrong in an urban setting so you need to look carefully at what your future needs will be. The 10oz is fine although the facings should match not contrast - even by a few shades. The contrast in texture is sufficient.
Coat
The jettings should not be in the gross grain fabric and it should have a breast pocket. Internally you would be as well with two breast pockets and a pen pocket as well as a ticket pocket either side.
Trousers
The trouser pockets should be 'normal' IE whatever you would have in any other suit. You still need to carry a wallet and handkerchief and avoiding use of the side pockets is a good thing. A proper fob pocket - not one of these silly small things is worthy of consideration.
think also about fish tail back and braces. You have t be comfortable about this approach. If you are not used to them or are in excessively hot circumstances then these are not a good idea. The contemporary cut is more versatile.
Shirt
Can be either style of collar but should be an evening dress shirt.
The midnight blue may not be to everyone's liking but can look elegant. You may find it restrictive though for future functions where the classic black is better.
On detail
The open weave cloth would look wrong in an urban setting so you need to look carefully at what your future needs will be. The 10oz is fine although the facings should match not contrast - even by a few shades. The contrast in texture is sufficient.
Coat
The jettings should not be in the gross grain fabric and it should have a breast pocket. Internally you would be as well with two breast pockets and a pen pocket as well as a ticket pocket either side.
Trousers
The trouser pockets should be 'normal' IE whatever you would have in any other suit. You still need to carry a wallet and handkerchief and avoiding use of the side pockets is a good thing. A proper fob pocket - not one of these silly small things is worthy of consideration.
think also about fish tail back and braces. You have t be comfortable about this approach. If you are not used to them or are in excessively hot circumstances then these are not a good idea. The contemporary cut is more versatile.
Shirt
Can be either style of collar but should be an evening dress shirt.
I am not aware of any midnight blue frescos out there, unless Alden has made one.
You might want to try the Smith 10 ounce mohair/wool. That's what I got and I love it.
You might want to try the Smith 10 ounce mohair/wool. That's what I got and I love it.
Dear BGE , you might look at the H.Lesser Tropicals. This cloth drapes heavy and wears light.. F.S.
Last edited by old henry on Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your uncertainty demonstrates that you have no need for the latter, leaving you with only one logical path.ay329 wrote:I am in the market for a similar outfit...but am unsure if I desire a tuxedo or a white tie outfit instead
If only need and logic were the driving forces behind our bespoke commissions... 
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