Period tailoring on British TV

[ThreadCount]

Hello London Loungers,
I've been reading this forum for some time now, but have only just got round to registering, so this is my maiden post, so to speak.

I was wondering what the general opinion is on the numerous examples of period tailoring to be seen on British TV. In particular, I'm thinking of ITV's long-running "Poirot" series (adaptations of Agatha Christie's 'Hercule Poirot' novels, starring David Suchet, and set in the 1930s) If you live in the UK, and receive digital freeview tv you can watch episodes of this series virtually every day on ITV3. Tomorrow alone, 3 episodes are being shown. For those of you outside the UK, I notice that there are also many complete episodes uploaded to youtube. Here is a link to just one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeCjPeZelU

I think Poirot is an interesting case (no pun intended) sartorially speaking, because immaculate appearance and fine tailoring are actually an integral part of his characterisation; Poirot's exquisite attire is a direct reflection of his immaculate and "finely tailored" mind, a mind that abhors anything that is inelegantly resolved, a "loose end" -whether of the textile or unsolved mystery variety.

But my question is: how good is the tailoring? I'm quite impressed (particularly by Poirot's outfits), but I was wondering what the more experienced and knowledgeable members think? How authentically 1930s do you think the tailoring is? I've just found an interesting website devoted to Poirot which talks a little about his costume:

http://www.poirot.us/costume.php#fatsuit

Other UK Tv shows worth a look for the tailoring include:

1)ITV's "Jeeves and Wooster" (starring Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry, and excellent entertainment irrespective of the clothes). Youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B_kF8FOvBQ

2) ITV's "Sherlock Holmes" series starring Jeremy Brett. The clothing in this is obviously more of historical interest - frock coats, etc - but the tailoring is still fascinating to look at (and the series is excellent as entertainment!) Youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWgV-hdsxDQ

Any thoughts?

[Jordan Marc]

ThreadCount:

Regarding the period tailoring and dressmaking we see, it's not just the costumes made for miniseries aired on television that are exquisite but also the gorgeous costumes made for movies. The designers, regardless of nationality, spend endless hours researching period garments to make sure the tailors and seamstresses get the details exactly correct. It's truly a testament to imagination and artistry. By the same token, the actors who wear the costumes are taught how to move in them. Time was there were people employed by
the major studios in Hollywood to teach actors proper movement in period suits and gowns. Tis a pity the
current crop of American actors haven't a clue how to move in period or modern garb. Witness the clumsy
galumphing down the red carpet by young knownothings in borrowed dresses, grotesque jewellery and badly tailored suits prior to the Oscars. Well, thank heavens their British and European counterparts know how to wear and move gracefully in their clothes. Whether on the big screen or the tele, details and fluid
movement count!

There's a rather telling story about the attention to details that filmmakers will insist upon. This one concerns Luchino Visconti's The Leopard. One of the scenes involved Burt Lancaster getting dressed. The American actor was surprised to find a dresser filled with handmade shirts and collars, fine linen and other accessories, all of which were meticulously laid in their proper places. In between takes, Lancaster asked Visconti why the the propman had gone to such lengths. Visconti smiled and said: "Because that is what your charcter would expect to find in his dressing room." And indeed the shirts and collars were in Lancaster's size.

JMB

[India Mail]

I have been wondering about posting a thread on this topic for several months; thanks ThreadCount. The late Mr Brett's Holmes series is my 'Bible', and I intend commissioning a fac simile of his frock coat one day en homage, but I did wonder about the accuracy of such costumes, when other aspects of such programmes (e.g., Watson offering his hand to a lady upon introduction) are in error.

With such mistakes, can one take other aspects of such programmes, such as costume, seriously? Poirot looks beautiful, but I prefer the mid-19th C. dress style, so it is of less interest. I appreciate I am eliding errors in etiquette, dialogue, etc., with the accuracy of such costume, but can one make a 'rule of thumb' to judge such television programmes? I look forward to other members' opinions on such period dramas.

[ThreadCount]

Jordan Marc:
The discussion could certainly be widened to good "period" tailoring in modern films. I recently saw "Good Night and Good Luck" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433383/ ) set in early 1950s America, and thought that the suits the actor David Strathairn (playing Edward R. Murrow) wore were rather good (I seem to remember a grey double-breasted being particularly successful- both as a period suit, and as a stylishly cut garment irrespective of period) I didn't think much of the suits the other actors wore (Clooney's, for example, looked particularly poor, to me)- although perhaps it was intentional that Murrow should stand out sartorially from the other characters.

IndiaMail:
The Holmes series is excellent, I agree. If you are interested in commissioning a frock coat, you might like to start by looking on ebay for a genuine late 19th century one (I've seen a few on there recently, and surprisingly inexpensive)- even if it's not a perfect fit, it might be a good model to work from, and you could take it to show your tailor to help him cut yours!

[Jordan Marc]

ThreadCount:

Since movies and television miniseries are made all over the world, think of the glorious costumes made for various productions such as Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Hero, Memoirs of a Geisha, Red Cliff, Elizabeth 1 & 2, Howard's End, Chanel Solitaire, Upstairs Downstairs, Peter Whimsey, Puccini, just to name a bunch. Pictures and series requiring nothing more than modern dress have less to do with costume designers than stylists who simply take the actors shopping at retailers. It keeps production costs down. Example, when Cary Grant produced That Touch of Mink he took Doris Day shopping at Bergdorf Goodman. It was his money at stake and nothing more was required for Day than off-the-rack clothes. She wasn't happy about it and she was difficult to work with during principal photography, which is why Grant refused to ever work with her again. Lavish productions are ungodly costly, hence the advent of CGI instead of a cast of thousands, but my oh my the production values of the biggies are the films and shows we love to watch again and again.

JMB

[marcelo]

I would add to the list:

- Brideshead Revisited
- Edward & Mrs Simpson
- Dance to the Music of Time (the first DVD only)

There is an episode in the Poirot's series (Taken at the Flood, I think), in which the Belgian sleuth does mention one appointment with his tailor.

Do the suits fit David Suchet, or does David Suchet fit his suits? The actor had a lot of padding beneath his coat so as to form an impressive girth. This made shooting in the summer almost a torture, he explains in an interview - but then it also possibly helped to correct an occasional bad fitting by correcting his body in the first instance.

...1)ITV's "Jeeves and Wooster" (starring Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry, and excellent entertainment irrespective of the clothes). ...

For the "Jeeve & Wooster" fans, I would like to remind that all BBC radio dramatisations, with Michael Hordern and Richard Briers, are available since last year in a single box with several CDs. I think it is even better than in TV.

[Bishop of Briggs]

There is an episode in the Poirot's series (Taken at the Flood, I think), in which the Belgian sleuth does mention one appointment with his tailor.

There is an episode where Poirot visits his tailor, on at least two occasions, for fittings. It was, IIRC, an off-Row tailor in East or South London.

[marcelo]

There is an episode in the Poirot's series (Taken at the Flood, I think), in which the Belgian sleuth does mention one appointment with his tailor.

There is an episode where Poirot visits his tailor, on at least two occasions, for fittings. It was, IIRC, an off-Row tailor in East or South London.

I can't recollect this episode. Do you remember its title?

[Bishop of Briggs]

There is an episode in the Poirot's series (Taken at the Flood, I think), in which the Belgian sleuth does mention one appointment with his tailor.

There is an episode where Poirot visits his tailor, on at least two occasions, for fittings. It was, IIRC, an off-Row tailor in East or South London.

I can't recollect this episode. Do you remember its title?

I'm sorry, I cannot - there are so many.

[storeynicholas]

Laurie and Fry (whose performances I enjoy), derive a great deal from the earlier Ian Carmichael and Dennis Price television adaptations of Jeeves and Wooster. The 1970s serializations of Dorothy L. Sayers' Lord Peter Wimsey stories, also starring Ian Carmichael, are a triumph; especially The Nine Tailors and Five Red Herrings. Ian Carmicahael, at 89, should be declared a National Treasure; not just for these programmes but for the great Ealing Comedies, such as: School For Scoundrels (with Alistair Sim; Terry Thomas; janette Scott; Dennis Price; Peter Jones; John Le Mesurier; Irene Handl; Hattie Jacques); I'm All Right Jack; Brothers In Law. Moreover, the older films are often more solid reference points for clothing and customs, than many modern ones, because often there were people involved in their production who (at least) had had experience that reached back to the existence of the costumes and customs being portrayed. Even the Rumpole series had serious blunders in costume.
NJS

[ThreadCount]

Laurie and Fry (whose performances I enjoy), derive a great deal from the earlier Ian Carmichael and Dennis Price television adaptations of Jeeves and Wooster.

Thanks for the info - I'm not familiar with this earlier version, I'll definitely try to take a look at it.

[AndyM]

[quote]The designers, regardless of nationality, spend endless hours researching period garments to make sure the tailors and seamstresses get the details exactly correct. /quote]

I am not sure this is always correct, when I questioned the director over the accuracy of the clothing in a TV production I was told that it was not a documentary and they made decisions for stylistic reasons, i.e. if they thought it looked good they used it. I do not mean this as criticism, in many historical productions they have clearly spent a lot of time and money on the costumes and they look great but they may not be historically accurate.

[Jordan Marc]

AndyM:

Researching period garments has more to do with the cut of the clothes than the fabrics themselves, which are no longer readily available. Although the clothes look authentic for period movies and miniseries, it's only the cut and color. The cloth is modern and sometimes distressed, if the character is supposed to look disheveled.

There are collections of genuine antique clothes, uniforms, hats, shoes, swords and guns in private hands as well as museums, but gaining access to them for purposes of research requires permission from the owners or curators and suiting up in a manner similar to a surgeon, ie, head, eyes, mouth, body, hands and feet completely covered to protect the clothes and artifacts, not you. If sketches and pictures are required,
a designer or researcher is seldom allowed to do it. Flashes and strobes degrade fabrics and leather. An inhouse artist or photographer will handle the chore, for a fee.

JMB

[marcelo]

There is an episode where Poirot visits his tailor, on at least two occasions, for fittings. It was, IIRC, an off-Row tailor in East or South London.

I think this should be the episode - "The Kidnapped Prime Minister". The film starts and ends with Poirot at the tailor's.
Marcelo

[Vidar]

If you would like to know something about country clothing just before World war II I can recommend "All Creatures Great and Small".