The London Lounge

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, so my card is behind the virtual bar.

I hope I'm in the correct forum.

I'm having a bit of a problem finding the right jeans to wear with a sports jacket and shirt.

I can do the whole smart casual thing with slacks, chinos or moleskin trousers etc, but I can't seem to find any jeans that take this sort of ensemble in a less formal direction, when that is appropriate.

I have jeans that I wear for purely casual wear with a T shirt (Diesel Ravix - low rise/hipster, bootcut) and I really like their fit and feel, but for obvious reasons these do not look right with a jacket, shirt and shoes. I've tried Levi 501s, but I hated the slightly high-waisted, tapered fit. What I'm really looking for is something made of soft, thin denim, with a fairly low rise and a straight to ever so slightly bootcut leg. If such a thing exists.

In order to assist you in giving appropriate sartotial advice, I'll give you a bit of an idea of "me" and the circles I move in, I'm 39 but look younger, 5' 8" tall, athletic/muscular build ( 34" waist, 42" chest) and I'm a barrister (so I need to dress casually but conservatively on occasion, but I don't necessarily want to look like an off-duty Major).


Thanks

Welcome, i_j_r,

I'm not sure you'll find a lot of love for jeans as 'smart casual' on this forum. But as a native Texan who's been wearing them since age ten in the mid-60s, I suppose some diplomatic advocacy is in order.

For wear with a jacket you might think carefully about the low-slung cut. As Michael has pointed out in his "Illustration of the week #17," a low rise shortens the legs and lengthens the torso; more to the point it makes it likely your shirt will show sloppily below the button point of your jacket. That look may be fashionable at present but it can't be called elegant. I notice that Daniel Craig wears jeans with the vest and jacket of a suit in interviews on the "Casino Royale' Blu-ray disc and doesn't look bad, though the rise is high enough for the vest to cover the shirt even when he's sitting on a stool.

Boot cut is up to you. I can't help with exotic and designer brands, including the various fanatical Japanese reproductions of Levi's from specific eras made on the original looms with ring-spun yarns (but not the trademarked arcuate pocket stitching), or the artfully hand-distressed (signed by the distressors, yet) versions for the impatient. They're all gilding the lily, in my view.

Last year I purchased my first shrink-to-fit 501s in over a decade, and while the denim is less robust than when I first began wearing them, it is not catastrophically so. My understanding is that the old looms which wove the ring-spun denim were moved to Japan in the 1970s, so I've presumably worn jeans from both the old and new cloth.

What I can clearly say is that, during my lifetime, I do not recall any 501s having nearly the exaggerated variation in warp thickness, or the degree of streaking that I understand is called "vertical fall" by denim connoisseurs, which seem so highly prized now. I presume, if this is a true "vintage" characteristic, it harks back to the dungarees made up through the immediate postwar era. Growing up in San Antonio, most all the ranch hands and working people I knew wore 501s (a few wore Lee Riders or Wranglers) and those jeans had a fairly even weave and color, in which the diagonal twill pattern was more prominent than the warp. Those are the jeans that became counterculture icons in the '60s, worn over western boots, Clark's desert boots, or with sandals--or in the fashion Warhol started, with Weejuns and a navy blazer.

I like them because I'm used to the cut (high crotch and roomy hips, which flap a bit on us skillet-assed guys when standing, but are comfortable when sitting a horse or an Aeron chair) and because they're plenty sturdy for the amount of heavy use I give them now. I usually buy four pair at a time, and they last in rotation for ten years or so. I also find it distasteful to spend $250 on what should be workingman's pants, even though I have no trouble spending more to have trousers made. I wish STF 501s were still made here in the States, and I'd gladly pay more than I do now for them if they were, but so long as the cut doesn't change much and the cloth is decent, I'll buy them. In my view jeans are the wrong kind of garment to turn into a rarity fetish.

I have heard a rumor that Levi Strauss is planning to drop the reinforced, felled inseam on new production STF 501s next year. If they do, that might shake my loyalty when next I'm in the market. I mean, saddle wear is pretty hard on that seam.

The 501 cut was designed so that it could be worn either outside (a bit snug) or inside your boot tops without a lot of extra cloth in the way. There are plenty of times when you'd rather have leather exposed to the mesquite thorns and limestone outcrops (or thistle and gorse and such if you're riding in Britain) than your trouser legs, so working cowboys often tuck 'em in. Besides (whatever happened to the old pictorial thread on well-used shoes?) if you have boots that have earned this kind of dignity, why would you cover 'em up?



(A hand on the Pitchfork Ranch in the Texas panhandle, from a 1980 Pulitzer Prize-winning photo essay by Skeeter Hagler)

If the slim legs bother you, just pretend they're Neapolitan.

Good luck!

IJR,

Welcome.

From what you've said, you and I are of similar age and build. I'm a very conservative jeans' wearer and since you have mentioned Diesel (which I also wear) I would suggest you try "Gas" (they have an outlet on the Kings Road at the Sloane Square end) and "7 For All Mankind". I know less about the latter but they are popular with our sort of demographic (if I may put it like that ). As I'm sure you know, most makers offer various cuts these days but these two are worth trying.

Sartorius

America's gift to the world: Levi's 501.

There is no other jean appropriate for men.

From what I remember, Ernest Sewn is known for their soft denim.

Try some Lee 101b, left hand twill. Real McCoy make some repros in Japan. They are high rise, full cut based on vintage Lee cut. The Japanese make amazing repros.

Thanks for your replies everyone. Sartorious' post was particularly helpful.

It was only after posting my question that I realised the forum was not a general sartorial advice and gossip board, but a specialised website devoted to bespoke tailoring. Still, I received some helpful advice in any case, for which I am grateful.

I also tried to join "Ask Andy", but, unbelievably, my "application" was rejected on the grounds that I had omitted some vital piece of information in the tedious form-filling registration process. Anyone would think I was trying to open an account at Coutts or join the Freemasons, not merely ask a question about jeans on th'interweb.

Anyhoo - does anyone know of any other forums dealing with these sort of interests (gentlemen's attire and interests etc)?

Thanks

I usually wear Levi's 505 in raw denim - they're straight fit and the denim softens up the more you wear 'em. Even my SR cutter suggested (!) that I pair them up with my recently made up Russell Check (John G Hardy #2404) sports coat.

C

ignatius_j_reilly wrote:Thanks for your replies everyone. Sartorious' post was particularly helpful.

It was only after posting my question that I realised the forum was not a general sartorial advice and gossip board, but a specialised website devoted to bespoke tailoring. Still, I received some helpful advice in any case, for which I am grateful.

I also tried to join "Ask Andy", but, unbelievably, my "application" was rejected on the grounds that I had omitted some vital piece of information in the tedious form-filling registration process. Anyone would think I was trying to open an account at Coutts or join the Freemasons, not merely ask a question about jeans on th'interweb.

Anyhoo - does anyone know of any other forums dealing with these sort of interests (gentlemen's attire and interests etc)?

Thanks

You'd probably like Styleforum -- they have an entire subforum dedicated to denim and streetwear. www.styleforum.net

..

kolecho wrote:Try some Lee 101b, left hand twill. Real McCoy make some repros in Japan. They are high rise, full cut based on vintage Lee cut. The Japanese make amazing repros.

Simon A wrote:Jeans are the working man's trousers, so spending a fortune on"designer denim" seems odd. I would recommend Wrangler Pro-Rodeo jeans; they have a moderately high waist which looks good and is comfortable, enough flare in the leg to fit over boots, and are made of excellent quality dark denim. They are no more than USD$25 a pair.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, but I specifically stated in my original post that I am not looking for a high waist/rise fit.

For reference, the "leg shortening" effect of lowish rise jeans doesn't bother me all that much because in terms of body proportions I am quite long-legged.