The London Lounge

I'm toying with the idea of horizontal bengal stripes for a shirt. Is this recommended?

What should I do about the collars and cuffs? Striped? If so, How? Or would white be preferable?

Opinions, please.



I

I don't know about the bengal stripes but there is a picture in one of Flusser's books of Biddle in a horizontal stripes with a white collar.

I see you're in southern California. How would you be planning to use the shirt? Casual without a jacket, or with sport jacket/suit and tie?

A vertical bengal stripe (unless a low-contrast color) is an assertive pattern to start with. Some would hesitate to wear it in the most sober business settings, but for the average U.S. office occasion it's probably fine, if not quiet--it's a trad favorite. Any horizontal stripe, in the context of jacket and tie, will make a strong statement and attract attention. Gordon Gekko wore at least one in the movie 'Wall Street' (I recall it as red on white, but my memory may deceive) when he was dressing to flaunt. So while it may be aesthetically apt in a given ensemble, one probably needs either a powerful presence (e.g., AJD Biddle's family and fortune), great insouciance, or a well-established "creative" or whimsical style to pull off robust lateral stripes with a lounge suit in a serious context. Here's a fairly bold (though wider than bengal) horizontal stripe with self collar as captured by Scott in the Sartorialist. Note how austere the colors are (apart from the tie) and how unassertive the jacket cut is--things that tame the potential flashiness of the stripe to some degree (as does the low-contrast color of Biddle's bengal):



Here's a horizontal pinstripe requested by a customer from an English "bespoke" / MTM firm and sewn by Rayner & Sturges. The subtler pattern might read as less provocative and be easier to modulate:



Since a horizontal stripe announces that the wearer is deliberately flouting convention, it will provoke a reaction in many viewers that the wearer should be prepared for. In my view it falls into the "Go to hell" category of sartorial statements: things which if carefully calibrated (as to complementary elements of the ensemble and as to occasion) can contribute to an admirably pungent personal style, and if not will just look like they came out of a Paul Fredericks catalog.

As to the question of white collar, you'll probably get varying opinions. Worn with a jacket and tie, the white collar would have the effect of minimizing the amount of stripe showing in the jacket's V on either side of the tie, and so toning down the stripe's effect. But then, as you'll have gathered from previous threads, some find white attached collars on patterned or colored shirts to be flashy (Biddle's is to-attach), so you're trading off one controversially assertive element against another. Not understated either way.

If you were planning to wear the shirt open at the neck with cuffs turned back and casual trousers for a poolside sundowner you'd probably be on perfectly safe ground. In the context of a tailored ensemble I'd tread carefully lest the shirt speak more loudly than I did.

Please note that these are simply my own reflections on the topic; I don't pretend to be prescriptive. The bottom line is whether you'll be comfortable wearing the shirt.

Cheers,
Couch

Never been a fan. It tends to remind me of Gordon Gekko!

Excellent advice, Couch, thank you.

I think it might be worth a try.

carl browne wrote:I'm toying with the idea of horizontal bengal stripes for a shirt. Is this recommended?

What should I do about the collars and cuffs? Striped? If so, How? Or would white be preferable?

Opinions, please.I

I addressed this topic in detail some 3 years ago but it is definitely worth a revisit as there is really very little information on these forums about the horizontal striped shirt. Most of the discussions usually bring up the point of Gordon Gekko, just like in this one also he has been mentioned and then that is about it. You really don’t have any pictures of forum members wearing it either. As a horizontal stripe wearer in both casual and business I will like to expound on this in a bit detail below.

But before that happens, there are a couple of things to consider here. First and foremost to the OP, where do you plan to where this in business or causal and if business what kind of work setting are you in? And above all what is your self comfort level with your sartorial experimentation? This last one is most important than any other unless you are in a Very conservative work environment.

The reason why I ask this is because just like vertical stripes there can be a million variations of horizontal stripe especially if mtm or bespoke.

Let us say for start you are using this shirt to wear with suits. I honestly don’t recommend wearing this with sport coats unless you are sure of how to successfully play with variations. A horizontal stripe shirt does not automatically mean “Gordon Gekko” as 99% of people couldn’t tell anything even if they noted the unusualness in the first place. So mostly it is going to be in your “head” unless you are talking loud in your face type of stripes, which shouldn’t be used anyways in horizontal or vertical for business wear save for casual wear.

The first point you need to determine what stripes you are using. This directly ties in with how MUCH of shirt you will be showing underneath. Unless you are using this type of pin thinness stripe I would not recommend wearing it with an SB suit, if you leave the jacket unbuttoned. Remember the more your shirt exposure the more likely people are to notice the horizontal aspect of it and unless such is your intention I would advise to limit the exposure.



This shirt is a very good starting place and thank you couch for posting it. It is great not only because stripes are thin but the collar and likely cuffs are cut traditionally. It bugs the hell out of me as to why people alter the collar and cuffs to cut “horizontal” which results in vertical stripes with a horizontal body (opposite of regular shirts). If you keep the collar and cuffs same the whole body of horizontal stripe perfectly harmonizes. People do this and then complain about others calling their shirt “gecko” like. Why do it in the first place I say? The thing you MUST let go of when wearing horizontal stripe shirts is the concept of “statement making”. In fact you should not be dealing with this insecure garbage of “statement looks” anyways but that is a different topic.

If you wear this above white and black pin shirt with a discreet suit and tie, no one will ever notice let alone take any offense of it. For those who do notice will likely be impressed with the uniqueness and its simplicity rather than offended. However, your original request was in Bengal stripe and this shirt is not that. Bengal is also very much possible, try in sky blue and white and other lighter colors but keep the collar and cuff normal. What will happen is when you wear this shirt especially with a discreet suit (buttoned up SB or DB) is something you may be surprised at. Because your shirt exposure will be so minimal, after all collar and cuffs will be regular and only body and sleeves be horizontal (which will mostly be covered buy your suit)…. Is that the resulting look will show only a small fraction of shirt matching nicely with tie and suit.

The trick is to keep the stripe light in color (you can go darker but I will explain later), keep collar and cuffs regular and wear with a buttoned Sb or DB.

If you want to go darker with stripes you can but make sure you suit is dark also. Here you can do something very interesting and pair a navy suit with darker blue and white stripe shirt and a light sold grenadine tie. The resulting look will make your tie stand out in the front and shirt will recede in the back giving you a very unique but elegant look. I admit this is hard to visualize so I will post pictures of this when I try it next time.

You can make the collar and cuffs white and the body in Bengal but that is more of the “Gekko” thing. If you do this make sure never to take your jacket off in public (esp with suspenders) that is if you worry about somebody calling it that look.
Then there are horizontal stripe shirts for casual wear. I wear them all the time and nobody will even notice that it is a buttoned shirt. Most see that and it registers in their brain as a polo shirt because that is where they see casual horizontal stripes and they never pay a second look.

It is very do-able and do not let anyone advise you otherwise. The key factors are your “self-comfort” with this (I can’t stress this enough) and a bit of discretion when choosing accessories and matching.

Cheers

EDIT WITH NEW PICTURES AND TEXT ADDED

Ok guys,
Finally after some incredible effort I was able to get decent pictures that go along with what I was referring to earlier. My hats off to those who post quality pictures on regular basis….this was my first time ever and it took forever to get the even decently right.

So this discussion is about the horizontal stripe and its effects not the particular suit that I used. I was planning on using a SB because that is what most people wear but that would have delayed this new material for another week or two and I wanted to get the message out while the post was still relatively new.

Anyways, so first I will introduce the two shirts I am using for example. First one is Sky blue Bengal stripe or candy stripe if you will with regular collar, sleeves and cuffs. In other words stripes run horizontal on main body only, actually sleeve and both are horizontal and still the same effect because sleeves are hidden underneath the jacket but this is the only shirt I had at the moment. The other shirt is a darker blue stripe with contrast collar and cuffs and both of them are directly related to OP question. So let us get to it.

As mentioned earlier, there is nothing good or bad about horizontal stripes (unless width is of paramount concern) , they are in fact just stripes like vertical. Just the horizontal stripe themselves don’t make a shirt “gekko” like or whatever. It is the numerous small details that come together to create which the parts are usually not.

Case1
White collar & Cuff horizontal blue stripe shirt with contrasting dark orange tie



Intense right? okay, now I want you to have a look at this and then start moving away from the screen to about 10 feet and tell me what you see? I doubt it will be the horizontal stripes of the shirt. These pictures are best viewed from 8-10 feet from your screen as you would view most people from a distance.

This is NOT a combination for everyone but average people on the street just really like it so do most women but we are studying details not comparing popularity ratings. Here I put the focal point of all attention at the tie knot and collar area and everything else sort of recedes in comparison. I got the combination by trial and error some 10 years ago and even though I don’t always like it for its intense contrast, most people find it very appealing. Again, there is a time and place for everything as such this surely has its place in certain settings.
BTW in case you are wondering this tie is rough linen actually. Lol!

Case 2
Same shirt as above and burgundy silk tie (it not magenta but burgundy)



Here even though the contrast is along the same color lines; i.e. red, orange etc but the effect is less and the tie harmonizes more with the rest as opposed to the fiery contrast of the first one. You can see the true color of this tie in the last picture with braces.

Case 3
Same shirt as above with a light blue tie



You will immediately see a significant difference between the two combinations above and this one. Here again focus is still the shirt collar and tie knot area but the effect is considerably subdued. The focus on tie plus shirt collar is again, due to the nature of contrast collar with darker shirt body paired up with a dark suit and that pushes the tie out in front. So going from darker to lighter it is the suit, shirt and then tie as opposed to the default of suit, tie and then shirt.

Case 4
Light sky blue shirt and same light blue tie



And here we have finally eliminated most traces of the contrast of first 2 pictures and now if you move away from the screen, you will actually see the tie blending in with suit and shirt as opposed to pervious 3 instances. Here is the case of classic darker to lighter being the suit, tie and then the shirt and the resulting effect should be pretty clear. This is actually my personally favorite but it doesn’t even get ¼th of the compliments of the first one. Kind of boring if you don’t notice much but it IS a horizontal stripe shirt nevertheless. How many people will actually get offended at this combination? You would be lucky if they notice anything let alone get offended.

Now, look at the same shirt used as above and here it is without the jacket with contrasting braces and tie.



Here is what happens if you use a horizontal stripe shirt in bold color and accessories and let the world have a full view at this. Naturally, the impression is going to be hardly the same. I find this above combo too “wall street” if you remove the jacket.

Keep in mind that none is intrinsically better than the other per se BUT you must decide what to wear when to the best effect. So it’s not like if a shirt has horizontal stripes or vertical it is automatically too common or vulgar but there is a complexity involved that must be considered and understood if you are to unravel these notions.
I hope these pictures are helpful and have given you a better image in regards to what I was mentioning earlier.

cheers

I only have one of these, but the stripes are so faint and close together that you need a microscope to tell what it is.

My personal opinion on the horizontal striped shirt is that I like them but only with certain stripes. The width of the stripes that Flusser used for Gekko was quite good. However, the sleeves were vertical and should have been horizontal like the body.

If you're going to have a horizontal shirt made up, everything should be the opposite of a vertical striped shirt. Self double cuffs and spread collars are the best way to go.

T&A had a nice blue horizontal with white collar and double cuffs that looked great.

As stated earlier about certain stripes, the thinner the stripe the better off you are for horizontal shirts. I own one from Robert Talbott in a white background with double thin blue stripes spread collar and double cuffs.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

Whether bengal, butcher or pin, horizontal stripes of any thickness are not particularly complementary to the human body. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. As we age, most faces grow down and out due to the muscles relaxing, lack of exercise and overeating. A widening of the face is often accompanied by jowls that just keep on jowling. A similar widening and droop takes place in the upper torso and the stomach. Did I forget to mention a thickening of the thighs and a bulging butt? Well, that's what you have to look forward to in your middle years. Exercise, weight training and diet seem like good ideas but seldom work in the longrun. Simply put, we become slaves to the sloth syndrome of maybe doing that tomorrow. So keep your stripes vertical or choose a check, either of which is much more flattering to your physique and the patterns of your suits and odd jackets.

JMB

The broadening effect of horizontal stripes is a well-known one. The paired images below show it in a quite graphic way. As for Mr Gekko, I would make an extra effort not to look like him.

It's wonderful to have you back in the conversation, etutee. I believe we're actually in complete agreement. As I see it there are two separate but related questions: 1) managing the aesthetic relationships in a tailored ensemble that includes a horizontally striped shirt, and 2) managing the potential that, as an unusual item, the horizontally striped shirt might draw disproportionate attention in a particular situation (in the way Brummell thought one's dress should not attract disproportionate attention--that's what I meant by "making a statement"). The discussion above, including your excellent recommendations, addresses both questions pretty well. I'll look forward to seeing pictures of your shirts.

As to the broadening effect of horizontal stripes, well illustrated by Marcelo's illusions, its impact as always depends on circumstances. Cary Grant was well past 50 when he wore the horizontally striped jersey in "To Catch a Thief" (recently reissued by Hackett). And with short-sleeve shirts--like polos--the broadening effect can accrue mostly to the the shoulders, which is not necessarily a bad thing. There are many readers of this forum, including many of us older than 50, for whom apparent broadening above the waist is no liability in any case. Be wary of sweeping generalizations.

Carl Browne, the original poster in this thread, has also directed our attention (in another thread) to the Dashing Tweeds web site. I can't resist posting this Edward Sexton suit from that site; just for fun, as a dramatic example of a 'statement':

I don't recall the particular scene where Gekko wore a horizontal striped shirt. Could someone remind me.

Thanks,

JRLT

couch wrote:

Jeeves would not approve

I agree with the above posters,horizontal stripes are one of those things that depend on you and how you do them. They can be done really well or really badly.

JRLT wrote:I don't recall the particular scene where Gekko wore a horizontal striped shirt. Could someone remind me.

Thanks,

JRLT

Dear JRLT:

There are two scenes in the movie Wall Street in which Mr. Gekko wears a horizontal striped shirt. The first scene is when Bud Fox meets with him for lunch at 21 Club, and the other scene is when he is at Bud's apartment talking about the Bluestar deal with Bud's father and other workers.

In the 21 Club scene the stripes are blue, and the apartment scene the stripes are black.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

Thanks, I'll look out for them.