The London Lounge

I purchased three Turnbull & Asser ties in the sale on Saturday

http://store.turnbullandasser.co.uk/Tie ... _Spot.html
http://store.turnbullandasser.co.uk/Tie ... ripes.html
http://store.turnbullandasser.co.uk/Tie ... ripes.html

I wonder how they compare to Drakes. Drakes make for Emma Willis and I believe, going by their selection of madders, Budd too.

Are there any other British tie makers, e.g. John Comfort, worth considering? Which maker is the best?

Great looking ties. As for the best among the best choosing a tie that fits you well should be factor as well. You could have the best tie in the world and if it isn't long enough to wear, well then it won't be much of tie then.

As for John Comfort I was told they don't make ties anymore.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "best". T&A are quite forthcoming about using a wool/poly blend for their interlining; they claim that the blend is less prone to shrinkage. Other makers will insist on using all wool and have a few choice words about makers who use blends. Either way, they have some lovely silk, and I think their construction quality is adequate.

Vanners, while not artisanal, weave some marvelous silk and supply many reputable makers. In contrast, some of the ties they make do not do justice to the fantastic silk they weave. They are also prone to using wool/poly blend interlining and the construction quality is a bit inconsistent -- I have taken apart several ties that were made up by Vanners for various brands. That said, they are excellent weavers, and the likelihood is that they are the weavers behind quality "English woven silk." Other than specialised silks like grenadines, I always find myself attracted to silk that turns out to be a Vanners silk.

Drakes get quite a bit of praise from all sorts of people, but I am not familiar enough with their ties. They look and feel lovely, which is a very good start. Now, all we need is for someone to take one apart...

A good question. For me Drakes RTW ties are too narrow. I had them make up three bespoke ties earlier in the year and I am very happy with them. However, a recent visit to Emma Willis suggests that their ties are indeed made by Drakes and with rather more satisfactory proportions (a personal view, of course). Budd's ties are also good.

Ede and Ravenscroft have a very nice range of ties. However, there is something not quite right with the construction as they have a tendency to roll - outer edges backwards - after a very short period, espcially if stored hanging. The necessity to store large numbers of ties flat is a complete nuisance.

Sulka seems to be taking its time in its return - and it is a return from a London base (after a NY start). Their old ties remain for me (and I still have some), beyond the reach of most of the modern makers. I also saw it mentioned that our agitation here had inspired the owners of the name to bring it back. If they are taking their time, I suppose that it augurs well as it means that they are taking the trouble to revive and not just replace.
NJS

NJS wrote:Sulka seems to be taking its time in its return - and it is a return from a London base (after a NY start). Their old ties remain for me (and I still have some), beyond the reach of most of the modern makers. I also saw it mentioned that our agitation here had inspired the owners of the name to bring it back. If they are taking their time, I suppose that it augurs well as it means that they are taking the trouble to revive and not just replace.
NJS

Did Sulka actually make their own ties?

shredder wrote:

NJS wrote:Sulka seems to be taking its time in its return - and it is a return from a London base (after a NY start). Their old ties remain for me (and I still have some), beyond the reach of most of the modern makers. I also saw it mentioned that our agitation here had inspired the owners of the name to bring it back. If they are taking their time, I suppose that it augurs well as it means that they are taking the trouble to revive and not just replace.
NJS

Did Sulka actually make their own ties?

They were shirt-makers, dressing gown makers and smoking jacket makers (as well as haberdashers) too. One of Noel Coward's bespoke, monogrammed Sulka dressing gowns is (or was) in the Theatre Museum and one of their smoking jackets is in the Met Museum - and I understand that the skilled workers that they had went to Dunhill. So far as I know they made their own ties and Roald Dahl had Sulka (in fiction) deal with the process of making Uncle Oswald's spider silk, that he brought in to them, made into ties; so I think that they probably did make their own - the style of construction, with the oversewn, diamond-ended neckband (for security) I haven't seen elsewhere. Moreover the patterns seemed exclusive to Sulka.
NJS

Cufflink79 wrote:Great looking ties. As for the best among the best choosing a tie that fits you well should be factor as well. You could have the best tie in the world and if it isn't long enough to wear, well then it won't be much of tie then.

As for John Comfort I was told they don't make ties anymore.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

It appears that John Comfort is still in business - http://www.countryties.com/index.html. Any opinions?

Scot wrote:A good question. For me Drakes RTW ties are too narrow. I had them make up three bespoke ties earlier in the year and I am very happy with them. However, a recent visit to Emma Willis suggests that their ties are indeed made by Drakes and with rather more satisfactory proportions (a personal view, of course). Budd's ties are also good.

Ede and Ravenscroft have a very nice range of ties. However, there is something not quite right with the construction as they have a tendency to roll - outer edges backwards - after a very short period, espcially if stored hanging. The necessity to store large numbers of ties flat is a complete nuisance.

Narrow ties are making a comeback. I spotted several in Gieves & Hawkes and Dunhill on Saturday. My local department store stocks narrow Paul Smith ties. The quality of Ede & Ravencroft merchandise is inconsistent. Cheaney make some lovely shoes for them.

Selfridges carry a small range of Drakes ties but a massive range of Duchamp ties. Does Duchamp make its own ties or does the firm sub-contract. The labels say "Made in England".

From what I saw during my factory visit, Drakes is the class of the field. They make ties for many different shops and distributors to the client’s specs. So it is up to the client to decide what sort of tie they choose to stock. Drake will make it.

That is why I have suggested that LL members draft a spec for ties to be made for us. I launched the idea in the Drakes thread and suggested a few silks and patterns to begin with. There was some interest from members. But I would have expected more. I think it’s a great idea to make a few runs of ties exactly as we wish them to be made.

I am going to see if I can get Michael Drake to join us on Tete a Tete.

So rendez-vous on the Drake thread.

Cheers

Michael

NJS wrote:Sulka seems to be taking its time in its return - and it is a return from a London base (after a NY start). Their old ties remain for me (and I still have some), beyond the reach of most of the modern makers. I also saw it mentioned that our agitation here had inspired the owners of the name to bring it back. If they are taking their time, I suppose that it augurs well as it means that they are taking the trouble to revive and not just replace.
NJS

Nicholas, please expand your comments, especially on why Sulka's old ties are "beyond the reach of most of the modern makers".

Scot wrote:Budd's ties are also good.

Does anyone know who makes Budd's printed silk ties, and if the silks are as good as Drakes?

Kolecho - last Winter Budd had madder paisley ties that came from Drakes and most of their ties were on the same 8cm pattern which makes me think that they came from Drakes.

DDM

Bishop of Briggs wrote:

NJS wrote:Sulka seems to be taking its time in its return - and it is a return from a London base (after a NY start). Their old ties remain for me (and I still have some), beyond the reach of most of the modern makers. I also saw it mentioned that our agitation here had inspired the owners of the name to bring it back. If they are taking their time, I suppose that it augurs well as it means that they are taking the trouble to revive and not just replace.
NJS

Nicholas, please expand your comments, especially on why Sulka's old ties are "beyond the reach of most of the modern makers".

Certainly, I still have some Sulka ties that I bought nearly thirty years ago. Unlike all the other ties from the same period (subjected overall to less wear at that), the Sulka ties have survived in a perfectly wearable state. Possibly, this is largely due to the diamond stitching reinforcement around the neckband but it must also be something to do with the quality of the cloth and general construction. The linings are also all silk, whereas, now, even in handmade ties, the linings are, sometimes, acetate (I'm looking at one taken at random from my stock).The cloth was unique to Sulka but not just that - it was always very different in appearance from other makes and (maybe not always but often) it is possible to look at a Sulka tie from 10 paces and be fairly sure that you can identify it as Sulka. This is all just my opinion but based on experience. I have had many ties - from T&A, New & Lingwood, Budd; Ede & Ravenscroft and other makers and they have been good ties but they are not in a class apart. I am, though, also sure that many modern products do not live up to the products of, say, 40 years ago and some of the the Fifty Shilling tailors could give some modern, pricier bespoke makers a run for their money. There have been images of recent, expensive 'finished' bespoke suits put up on this site with the query - 'is this all right' and, sometimes, the consensus has been 'no, it isn't'. Incidentally, one of Ian Fleming's favourite suits was from a Fifty Shilling tailor.
NJS

PS I have also just noticed that even the 'All Silk' label is in the distinctive Sulka script and is not the mass-produced stuff that they almost all use these days. Sulka has a lot to live up to.
NJS

DD MacDonald wrote:Kolecho - last Winter Budd had madder paisley ties that came from Drakes and most of their ties were on the same 8cm pattern which makes me think that they came from Drakes.

DDM

That is my perception too. Budd has some madders in its window now and the designs appear to be the same as those on Drakes' online shop.

Emma Willis has the new Drakes madras linen ties in her window.