On Tweeds, Ethics & Sustainability

[SV]

I post a new topic here regarding the issues I touched on in my previous post in Where to start.

I have been quite obsessed with the possibility of a gentleman's wardrobe in fabrics produced in a sustainable and ethical manner both ecologically and socially. I have come to consider the origins and the way the materials are produced in clothing as important (or nearly) as important as the final outcome. It is often impossible to know where my clothes' materials come from and how they were produced. Information is not easily obtainable, and I believe, sometimes quite purposefully obscured.

In Sweden they showed a documentary on TV about ducks and how their feathers are plucked from live birds couple of days ago. It is said that half or more of the material comes from live animals. This has created an public outcry, at least here in the Northern countries. These kind of issues are known to animal welfare people and activists but not to the general public.

I ask myself: Do I want to support such practices with my money? I don't. It's not just the down jacket in the sports store. I like wool, but I don't want to support wool producers that practice mulesing, or let their stock over craze the environment or let their sheep dips poison it. I adore silks but I don't like the idea of boiling zillions of silk worms alive for it (probably no way around it, I still wear silk). I'd very much like a Astrakhan hat for winter, but I don't want that Persian Sheep killed to obtain the beautiful curly pelt from it's unborn lambs. Or puppies skinned alive and thrown in a pile while still living in Chinese fur farms for the trim on my coat (I saw this on a video, it stayed with me for days). The soles in my shoes probably come from a cow that lived it's entire life shackled to a pen, the uppers from it's calf who had mercifully shorter life, but it's skin was chrome tanned in Bangladesh and contributed to major environmental hazard. Cotton is the most heavily sprayed crop in existence and I'd like to make sure that my shirts don't support poisoning of the environment and the people (women,children?) who pick the fibre from the sprayed field. The list could go on.

Now, being interested in beauty and elegance I ask myself why would I separate the process from the product? A material or a product can't reach it's potential perfection unless it's produced in an elegant and compassionate manner, too, in my opinion. This is, I think, a new paradigm of not braking things down to separate compartments; business, ethics, esthetics and so on. I see it gaining ground and acceptance and I' like to see myself part of it.

Alternatives do exist. I mentioned Ardalanish farm where they make tweeds in a certified organic process. There are shirt fabrics in organic cotton dyed with traditional plant colors, organic linen, hemp...There is a Slovenian tannery producing vegetable tanned leather from certified organic animals. These things are just beginning to emerge. There is not a whole lot of variety on offer and it's hard to come by, and expensive. But I'd still like to be part of it, supporting better practices. Things can be made if they are not readily available.

I wonder if there are people here who would like to explore these things more and perhaps commission fabrics and such? This is where a bunch of people can do more than one.

What do you think?

I hope I don't appear as a fanatic or weirdo to you.


SV

[radicaldog]

These are all interesting issues, and they deserve a fuller discussion than what I am going to attempt here; but time is short, and sleep deprivation is about to have the better of me.

So, it seems to me that there are two classes of issues here:

(1) The general problem of the trade-off between elegance/beauty and other values such as animal welfare, the environment, etc.

(2) Specific issues about the ethical status of certain practices (e.g. boiling silk worms, farming animals for fur, and so on).

With regard to (1), it seems to me that there is a plausible Nietzschian argument to be deployed in favour of some level of trade-off: if part of what constitutes value for human beings is the achievement of some forms of excellence, then on a reasonable ranking of values some trade offs will be OK. Example: Gauguin caused his wife and kids to live alone and in poverty to go and paint in Tahiti and achive excellence. That seems at least permissible to me, and probably commendable. It's a high risk moral strategy, though.

As for (2), I can't really discuss all the various points you raised. But, for example, I don't see much of a problem with boiling silk worms: they don't have anything comparable to consciousness, so I don't think they can perceive harm in any morally salient way. And another point regarding organic fabrics: organic farming might be preferable for environmental reasons, but it doesn't give you any guarantees in terms of the welfare of the animals or, in some cases, even of the farm hands. My local grocer stocks bananas that are either organic or 'fair trade', but not both. I tend to go for fair trade, but perhaps I should simply base my choice on taste.

[marcelo]

Example: Gauguin caused his wife and kids to live alone and in poverty to go and paint in Tahiti and achive excellence. That seems at least permissible to me, and probably commendable. It's a high risk moral strategy, though.

But Gauguin had "moral luck" anyway, as the late B. Williams envisaged the case. If he had not succeeded as a great painter - something he could have known in advance - his action would have been assessed in a quite different light. A great “high risk moral strategy”, as you put it.

[Pelham]

SV raises some legitimate concerns. I would simply note that there's a twofold ethical incentive for the bespoke option. First of all, you're supporting well-paid craftsmen instead of sweatshop labour; and secondly, that the items are made to last, unlike the cheaply made streetwear of our age which is basically designed for the trash heap. So it seems to me that simply by choosing bespoke you've already done twice as much for sustainability as most consumers of clothes.

[Costi]

My local grocer stocks bananas that are either organic or 'fair trade', but not both. I tend to go for fair trade, but perhaps I should simply base my choice on taste.

I think that is the best advice on these matters. Often the "organic farming" or "fair trade" label is just a marketing gimmick, not always covered by a real ethical policy, which allows merchants to gain a competitive advantage or ask a higher price, sometimes for an inferior product, by exploiting such consumer worries. They don't always sell quality products, they sell peace of mind, so don't let yourself tricked. What is a cloth weaver supposed to do: buy good wool (which is already a natural product and no animals are killed for it) and make good cloth, or buy "organic" wool regardless of quality and make poor cloth? Of course, organic and fair trade don't always equal poor quality, on the contrary, but it should not be a more important factor than quality in making buying decisions.
There is no big difference between boiling silk worms and lobsters. Some things simply cannot be done differently. Others can, but not all those who claim to do it tell the truth. Since you don't know, you cannot go wrong if you put your money where the "taste" is.

[JDelage]

If one is concerned about the environment, then organic might not be the best option. Organic agriculture has lower yields per acre so farmers need more acres. That requires some acreage to be taken from wilderness, or it requires non-organic food to be imported instead of produced locally. So the overall ecological consequences might or not be an improvement. It depends how one weighs the various aspects.

[Sator]

Some of these issues are of questionable value to me, at least. Then again I am not a vegan. I happily eat steak, fish and wear calf skin boots. That is not to condone cruelty to animals.

As for the organic thing, I am a bit of a sceptic. I also question the value of genetically unmodified farming. Then again I have genetically modified plenty of cells in my time, so I would say that.

What is more important to me is fair wage labour. That is why I choose bespoke where I can see the working conditions of the worker. I pay my artisans in cash. I refuse to buy anything from countries with dodgy conditions for workers, unless I have no choice (sometimes this is the case).

[India Mail]

For what it is worth, please may I add myself to the list of persons interested in 'shopping ethically' for one's garments, as far as my pay-cheque will allow.

I buy my shirts 'Made in England' - sub-contracted to a firm in North Kent, I believe - and would rather items were from an English, than foreign, sweat-shop, if necessary. How else could a high-street shirt, made originally in the U.K., cost the same as twenty-five years ago? Alas, one must make compromises, and I fear even what says 'Made is England', &c., is probably sub-contracted in part to that huge firm in Mauritius (cited previously in this Lounge).

I, too, have mused about the cotton's origin for my shirts. Sadly, until 'People Tree' and other ethical producers make Victorian-style shirts, cravats, &c., and in the U.K., I will have to make do.

Life is compromise, but we can attempt to lead by good examples.

[ajoman]

Hello,

Excellent points have been raised about considerations to be made when considering searching for organic fabrics. The quality of the fabric is paramount in my opinion, being that something of lower quality will be thrown away more quickly, meaning that all of the resources used to make the garment were used at lower efficiency. If you are interested in an organically grown and environmentally-safe dyed fabric, I would suggest looking at a few options from Scabal. They are two-ply fabrics, and do have a better reputation in suiting than other organic wool producers. Their four seasons book is a 9 oz. super 120's, so it is much lighter than many would recommend, but is eco-friendly. They also produce a 9-10 oz bamboo for jacketing that is quite soft and bamboo is very sustainable, although I cannot attest to this fabrics longevity.

Pickering International is a company that produces some organic shirting as well, although not much.

Sorry I do not know of a certified organic, quality woven 13-16 oz suiting or tweed, best of luck on your search.

[SV]

Thank you for your attention to the topic. I try to answer some of the concerns below. It might prove lengthy, so bear with me.

1. radicaldog: Granted, it's a trade-off. We all live on the expense of other creatures. I don't lose my sleep over silk worms, either. There are other varieties of silk that don't involve boiling the caterpillars but those are different in appearance. I believe, though, that silk worms feel pain or similar stress when boiled alive. In my understanding organic certifiction does attempt at guarantees of animal and worker welfare. Organic wool is an example of former and organic (and fair-trade) cotton of latter.
What comes to Gauguin, he could have taken his wife and children with him instead of fooling around with native girls (unless it constitutes his inspiration to excellence). I'm a painter myself but I'm highly sceptical of their excuses

2. Pelham: Bespoke is of course the best option. It's something made to your particular specifications. These specifications could include the origin of the material in fabrics. In cloth club we commission fabrics, perhaps we could commission organic fabrics, too, and make sure of the quality in all senses? My example of Ardalanish Farm takes commissions, their minimum order is 20 m, if I recall right.

3. Costi: Organic trade has it's crooks but I'm not ready to abandon the whole thing because of that, yet. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the quality of organic wool. Ardalanish tweeds seem like good quality, something their say to strive for on their web site. I applied Mr Alden's testing methods mentioned elsewhere here and their seem to hold. I'm after quality and excellence in all senses.

4. JDelage: I don't have enough information about the yealds of organic vs. conventional cotton, but to arrange affairs sustainably both wilderness and farmland should be protected, IMHO. Perhaps it can be achieved by having less consumers (population control).

5. Sator: The animal for your steak can be treated either cruelly or humanely before (and while) being slaughtered. Same applies to fish and calves. I'm not vegan either, but I respect them greatly for their effort at living according to their conscience, which is not easy. I haven't eaten meat for a long time but eating milk and eggs I agree to slaughter of calves and chicks.

6. India Mail: I wonder if there are enough of us to look into this further and keep it up? Maybe even cloth or ready made projects? (Shoes would be wonderful, too).

7. ajoman: I haven't looked at Scabal yet, thank you for pointing me to it. I'll have a look.
Bamboo is being marketed as a sustainable option but what I've managed to gather, it is a modified cellulose fiber like viscose, although the raw material comes from a sustainable source. It depends on the method of processing the fibre. There seems to be two kinds process, the other one more sustainable but more expensive, as well, as far as I know. I don't like the idea of bamboo suiting (could be good for lining, though) I want wool. I know Pickering International, they have nice looking cloths, flax-hemp herringbone for example.
I know 2 organic tweed producers in UK; Ardalanish Farm and Island Heritage, the former Soil Association certified. Ardalanish makes 17 oz tweeds, twills and hopsacks. Basically, they can make anything you want but the minimum order is 20 m which makes it too expensive for one individual. O-Wool in US makes suitings, flannels and meltons in organic Australian merino. Yet another option would be alpaca fibre which comes in 12 beautiful natural fleece colours, but it's costly and seems to be hard to come by. I've found mills in Latin America on the web that make alpaca cloths but they are not available for retail customers.

SV

[marcelo]

I had often heard that one could not shear vicuña so as to obtain its precious fleece without killing the animal. But last year I read a report about a project supported by Loro Piana which allows the production of vicuña wool in a more sustainable way. The article was published in The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... icuna.wool

[Costi]

Hello,

Excellent points have been raised about considerations to be made when considering searching for organic fabrics. The quality of the fabric is paramount in my opinion, being that something of lower quality will be thrown away more quickly, meaning that all of the resources used to make the garment were used at lower efficiency. If you are interested in an organically grown and environmentally-safe dyed fabric, I would suggest looking at a few options from Scabal. They are two-ply fabrics, and do have a better reputation in suiting than other organic wool producers. Their four seasons book is a 9 oz. super 120's, so it is much lighter than many would recommend, but is eco-friendly. They also produce a 9-10 oz bamboo for jacketing that is quite soft and bamboo is very sustainable, although I cannot attest to this fabrics longevity.

Pickering International is a company that produces some organic shirting as well, although not much.

Sorry I do not know of a certified organic, quality woven 13-16 oz suiting or tweed, best of luck on your search.

Welcome to the Lounge, ajoman!
I think your post illustrates the points I was trying to make in my previous post: those are not first rate products for bespoke tailoring, they are marketing gimmicks: "How can we sell 9 oz toilet paper as suiting? We call it organic!". I believe these considerations should not come before quality in one's buying decisions.

[radicaldog]

Thanks, Marcelo, for the pointer to the Guardian piece. I noticed they have a whole series of articles on 'The Ethical Wardrobe'. Some might be of interest to us:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... alwardrobe

[marcelo]

Projects such as those supported by Loro Piana would not have been successful if consumers themselves were not upset over the prospect of acquiring goods which have been produced through the suffering of living creatures, human or not. But a point which seems not to have been raised thus far concerns the taxation over the import of, for instance, leather and textiles products. Since fair treatment of living creatures may, in some circumstances, represent an extra cost, producers in less wealthy regions of the globe may dispense with this sort of treatment in order to make their products more competitive on the global market. Making their products less competitive through taxation, or through ethically selective consumption, will, indeed, endow consumers with a sense of ethical relief, but it may not necessarily contribute to the relief of the suffering of other living creatures, human or not, involved in the process.

[SV]

ajoman, I didn't see any organic suitings at Scabal website. Nothing was labeled such and they have lots of collections there. I wouldn't be interested in 9 oz. anyway, double the weight and we would be talking. I wonder if they do bespoke weaving?

I found that Dashing Tweeds seem to do those, even small quantities. Maybe I drop a line at them...

Tissue paper quality (or toilet paper quality, more like)) seems not be the trouble with only organic products. In my mind organic is going back to the quality of the past, so that is what should we be expect from it, IMHO. Treating animals not as industrial machines but part of life and your work not as a way to make maximum profit but take pride in high quality and straight backed responsibility and respect for all concerned in the production of your goods and services.

(btw Scabal seems to publish a magazine called Bespoken. You can flip it at they web pages. There's an article on London cut.).

SV