The London Lounge

alden wrote:

I don't see anything wrong in wearing such a suit or tweeds in town - or even brown shoes. It all depends where you are going and what you are doing: if you are going to a museum or shopping or to feed the pelicans in the park, no problem arises - but if you are going to have lunch at a club or to a business meeting, I think that hound's-tooths and tweeds and brown shoes are out of place - and you will feel it.

You have accurately described the two kinds of town dress we refer to on the LL: business dress and rus in urbe. The houndstooth tweed suit is strictly of the later kind.

Cheers

Michael

In a sense, I learned the hard way - because, although I realized that the suit was out of place, as I say, it was force of circumstance (filling a place left by an absentee at a social event) but I had no preconception of just how awkward I would feel - until a couple of glasses had slipped down, anyway! Just remembered - although the book isn't to hand to verify - I think that James Bond (who lived in Chelsea) drove down to the Royal St Mark's golf club (modelled on the Royal St George's at Sandwich) on the occasion of his golfing duel with Goldfinger, wearing an old hound's-tooth tweed suit. My experience of discomfort, described above, was about as bad as it gets: I was travelling back to town from the country, by train - so the suit was fine. I then received a call, en route from one of my oldest friends, who was holding a black tie dinner party in a private room of a restaurant - someone had dropped out and when was I back? The answer was not in time to change - pleaded with not to leave an empty chair and 'no one will mind' etc - so I turned up, in the suit mentioned, to a candle-lit table full (bar one), of men in black ties and women in evening gowns - and the rest I have described. I think the rus in urbe phenomenon has something also to do with which town, and which part of town as much as with the occasion. Speaking for myself, I would never feel particularly comfortable in the city of London or the west end (I mean St James's - Piccadilly - Mayfair - Covent Garden) in the week or in the evening in anything except dark clothes and black shoes - but I started off as a young fogey - and, predictably, now I'm just an old one! However, I feel confident that I could now have a weekend stroll in the park in a 16 oz Donegal (if I could find one)
NJS

And you maintain to this very day that it was a friend who invited you to a black tie affair knowing you were dressed in houndstooth,,...?

This is probably a subject for a thread of its own, but rus in urbe style is where men most often lack much skill. A lot of gents know how to wear a dark suit to work, but they can easily become barbaric cave dwellers when it comes to holidays, travel, and weekends in the city. This is particularly shameful because it is in many of these relaxed moments that a man can give his imagination full rein. A tweed or flannel suit worn with finely aged brown shoes and an ascot, for example, can be as comfortable as the Dockers, polo shirts and a nylon (yes, I did use the man made fabric word) jacket.one sees.

Cheers

M Alden

alden wrote:And you maintain to this very day that it was a friend who invited you to a black tie affair knowing you were dressed in houndstooth,,...?

This is probably a subject for a thread of its own, but rus in urbe style is where men most often lack much skill. A lot of gents know how to wear a dark suit to work, but they can easily become barbaric cave dwellers when it comes to holidays, travel, and weekends in the city. This is particularly shameful because it is in many of these relaxed moments that a man can give his imagination full rein. A tweed or flannel suit worn with finely aged brown shoes and an ascot, for example, can be as comfortable as the Dockers, polo shirts and nylon (yes, I did use the man made fabric word) jacket.one sees.

Cheers

M Alden

Ha! He explained to the rest before I arrived; maybe he thought that it would liven things up and enable other people to break the ice more easily but he is such a practical joker that the miracle is that he told me beforehand at all! I certainly agree that, if a sensible man works to live and does not live to work, it must follow that he should make at least a similar effort at leisure as at work in his dress. There is a trend to dress in jumpers/sweaters and slacks to go for a Saturday lunch in a village inn when, in fact, a broken-in tweed suit is certainly more comfortable and far better all round. It is more comfortable because, if one is in a jumper all the impedimenta of keys, wallets, handkerchiefs etc have to be stuffed in the trousers - result discomfort - but the trouble is that it has become such a trend that, probably, for most people, there is no going back. Not that this fact will stop us so please do tell us more of your ideas on rus in urbe, bearing in mind the different places where you spend your time. I certainly think that another thread on this would inform on the important topic of dress in leisure time.
NJS

I see that these posts have, as if by magic, grown up, left home and set up on their own! I just repeat that I should like to learn what members think of this - especially bearing in mind that different cities - even different parts of those cities - present different environments and all cities present many different occasions.
NJS

I have some wonderful tweed jackets. When can I wear them? I don't wear them at my second home and I don't wear them to work?

I am thinking of wearing them to work on days when I don't have any meetings or court appearances

But if I do that will I pay for it in the next life?

I am thinking of wearing them to work on days when I don't have any meetings or court appearances

With all the lovely tweeds you possess I certainly hope you do wear them to the office!

But if I do that will I pay for it in the next life?

From a time/value of money point of view, its best to pay for everything in the next life.

Cheers

Michael

NJS

I've given some thought to your story. If a man of impeccable dress appears at a black tie party dressed in tweeds or checks, there's bound to be a good explanation for it. All of the guests should know this, and understand that a far greater misfortune would be your absence.

Well said, Carl.

Well, that's very kind of you both! As I recall, it turned out to be a very enjoyable evening for me too!
NJS

carl browne wrote:NJS

I've given some thought to your story. If a man of impeccable dress appears at a black tie party dressed in tweeds or checks, there's bound to be a good explanation for it. All of the guests should know this, and understand that a far greater misfortune would be your absence.

In the right crowd. My parents once got hit with this back in the 60s, when they found themselves attending a thing that my uncle was giving. Why, I do not know-- he and my mother loathed each other. Anyway, this was in the days before carry-on bags, the suitcases were lost, and my dad had to go wearing a Madras sport jacket. It did not go over too well with snobbish Detroiters.

snobbish Detroiters

Pride before the fall?

Your dinner seems 'very much' like the dinner in the Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, where his friend from Germany, Theo Kretschmar-Schuldorff, is pitched into a full dress dinner on his way back from a POW camp by train.

culverwood wrote:Your dinner seems 'very much' like the dinner in the Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, where his friend from Germany, Theo Kretschmar-Schuldorff, is pitched into a full dress dinner on his way back from a POW camp by train.

It felt a bit like that at first. It is strange how binding customs can be even if they are not generally invoked (by that I mean, in this instance, most people seldom dress for dinner) and I felt as though I was breaking the custom as, on this particular occasion, people were making a special effort. Maybe it was a little like those dreams where the dreamer finds himself in public in the nude. I jolly well hope that there are no psychoanalysts in the LL - mind you, some people might say that I might benefit from a session or two.
NJS

NJS

Forgive me for living in an olive tree cave, but I discovered today that you have written a book and a dandy of one from all reports.

You join an esteemed group of authors who are members of the LL including Bruce Boyer, Marion Maneker, Ed Hayes and Manton.

I wish you well and look forward to reading the book.

If you are in London on Dec. 17, let me know.

Cheers

Michael

Michael, I don't think you'll be disappointed. It includes a nice mix of summary, history, anecdote, and occasional provocation (authorities cited for NOT wearing pocket linen in town). But the best thing about it is that the voice of its author shines through unmistakably. It couldn't have been written by anyone else. Like a successful bespoke garment, it's one of a kind.

I only have one regret. NJS reported that the publisher required him to substantially shorten the submitted manuscript. I suspect many of the best stories landed on the cutting-room floor. I look forward someday to seeing the "director's cut"!