The London Lounge

I apologise in advance for what may be a slightly odd question, but it's been provoked by the many comments in threads where people seem to hold themselves differently when being fitted from when otherwise engaged in daily business.

My posture isn't perfect, but it's something I'm striving to correct - my physiotherapist has recommended some exercises to achieve a straighter spine and more upright position. I've not got major problems, I just tend to slouch like most people....

How does this affect the process of comissioning a suit though - surely posture doesn't stay static (hence the fit issue mentioned above) but presumably the tailor will incorporate an element of correction into the cut to compensate for my stance, but as I stand straighter this will become redundant?

Does this require that I achieve something reflecting my ideal posture before ordering a suit, or is it something that will be a minor influence on fit?

Simon

I think it is more important to get in shape before ordering bespoke. Get to a weight you can reasonably maintian and then order a wardrobe, then you cant afford to go back!

If you really think you can change your posture you might wait a bit or stand the way you want to be when you have finished the therapy.

Cheers

Michael

alden wrote:Simon

I think it is more important to get in shape before ordering bespoke. Get to a weight you can reasonably maintian and then order a wardrobe, then you cant afford to go back!

If you really think you can change your posture you might wait a bit or stand the way you want to be when you have finished the therapy.

Cheers

Michael

Sigh

"IN SHAPE". What does that mean exactly? Are only those who are "in shape" allowed to order bespoke clothes? Surely the man who conforms to someone elses misguided image of the ideal, allowing for differences in scale, would be much better advised to buy clothes which have been ready made to match that image. Isn't the point of bespoke about clothing the human body, in all its slouching, out of shape, variable imperfection, to make even the out of shape elegant.

And Simon, unless you are physically unwell, why are you bothering with a physiotherapist? Maybe not my business but slouch, be happy and save your money! Spend it on good cloth, fashioned, by a decent tailor, into a suit made to fit a human being not a mannequin.

Scot wrote:

alden wrote:Simon

I think it is more important to get in shape before ordering bespoke. Get to a weight you can reasonably maintian and then order a wardrobe, then you cant afford to go back!

If you really think you can change your posture you might wait a bit or stand the way you want to be when you have finished the therapy.

Cheers

Michael

Sigh

"IN SHAPE". What does that mean exactly? Are only those who are "in shape" allowed to order bespoke clothes? Surely the man who conforms to someone elses misguided image of the ideal, allowing for differences in scale, would be much better advised to buy clothes which have been ready made to match that image. Isn't the point of bespoke about clothing the human body, in all its slouching, out of shape, variable imperfection, to make even the out of shape elegant.

And Simon, unless you are physically unwell, why are you bothering with a physiotherapist? Maybe not my business but slouch, be happy and save your money! Spend it on good cloth, fashioned, by a decent tailor, into a suit made to fit a human being not a mannequin.

Very good point, indeed!

But if for whatever reason one thinks that a certain shape is the right shape for oneself, it would be prudent to reach that shape, and then spend all one's money with bespoke tailoring so as to compel oneself to keep one's best shape.

I thought that the main advantage of bespoke is that a great tailor can make the Hunchback of Notre Dame look like Tom Cruise. If I can get back "in shape", I might as well go MTM.

Bishop of Briggs wrote:I thought that the main advantage of bespoke is that a great tailor can make the Hunchback of Notre Dame look like Tom Cruise. If I can get back "in shape", I might as well go MTM.

TOM CRUISE?! Now, Cary Grant, Gary Cooper, Clark Gable, Jack Buchanan, Robert Donat, George Sanders, Clive Brook, Ronald Colman, Ray Milland - and heaps of others - I could easily bear as templates - but TOM CRUISE? - if that chrematistically-minded and (coincidentally) epicene, diminutive actor (a template for the misguided youth of our modern world) got a hump, he'd get a life.

I repeat that Vesper martinis should not be mixed with absinthe as a substitute for what the very same, namby-pamby, modern world offers as Lillet.:
NJS

I think bespoke clothing is not a miraculous solution that promises to make anyone look like Adonis regardless of one's physical parameters, thus allowing a young man to disregard his health, posture and general shape. Of course a good tailor will do his best to fit a man who has a hunch, a dropped shoulder or a shorter arm, when that man has reached an age or is in a physical condition that doesn't make any improvement probable. But if a young man has a tendency to slouch or get overweight, I wholeheartedly agree with Michael Alden that the sensible thing to do is take care of his body first and then get clothes to complement his physique. I assure you tailors work better with "good material". They are not plastic surgeons.
This is not about conforming to a cultural ideal (although what would the ancient Greek world have been without its ideal of physical beauty, especially with regard to the male body - an ideal that was actively pursued, not just a Platonic ideal form), but about taking reasonable care of one's body and health. Marcelo put it very well into few words. I am far from being the gym-going type (although it would certainly do me good), nor do I think we should be obsessed with our bodies like empress Sisi of Austria, but it doesn't sound reasonable to me to completely ignore the condition of our bodies because we pay doctors and tailors to take care of it.
I have seen many pictures of men in perfect shape who wear bespoke clothes. Bespoke clothing is not always a matter of necessity, when one simply cannot get into RTW clothes. It is a matter of taste, of style, of having the possibility to choose, to
combine, to design. Cary Grant was not short, fat and slouching. A good posture is always preferrable, if there is anything one can do about it.

storeynicholas wrote:TOM CRUISE? - if [he] got a hump, he'd get a life.

Indeed, that's what we find at the other end of the body cult spectrum.
But we should note that almost all of the elegant men listed by NJS were not completely indifferent to their physical shape and none of them (that I know of) were obsessed with it, either. Just the right measure of concern for physical health and wellbeing. "Mens sana in corpore sano" is by no
means an invention of the XX century...

I am sure that it is just not possible to stay in reasonable shape without at least some mild exercise - I have always found walking a good deal helps very much and I do walk about a good deal - too restless to stay still for long and there are two flights of stairs here which I am sure help the cardio-vascular system. On arrival in Brazil I was about a stone and a half overweight (10 kg) but I have lost that and walking and - not quite swimming - but struggling around in the water certainly help. I regard the gym much as some people regard a dental appointment.
NJS

just relax and stand naturally. the tailors first words when measuring.
then the customer looks down and around,shifts his stance.to see whats going on.
then the first basted fitting, and he snaps to attention in front of the mirror like a soldier instead of slouching his normal.
is it any wonder there are often problems that drive the tailor crazy.

a tailor wrote:just relax and stand naturally. the tailors first words when measuring.
then the customer looks down and around,shifts his stance.to see whats going on.
then the first basted fitting, and he snaps to attention in front of the mirror like a soldier instead of slouching his normal.
is it any wonder there are often problems that drive the tailor crazy.

Which is why I don't let the client anywhere near a mirror until I am done most of my work during the fitting; then I direct him to the mirror to give me his thoughts.

yea, you have to be firm with them.

Thank you all for your diverse thoughts on my query - the underlying message I take away is that imperfect posture shouldn't be allowed to go unaddressed, but nor should it be a perquisite that one achieves physical perfection before commissioning a suit.

unless you are physically unwell, why are you bothering with a physiotherapist?

This was as a result of an accident - thankfully not serious - that required me to undergo a course of physiotherapy