Vents

[Oliver80]

Dear All

What is the convention for vents on a coat?

Is it personal preference or does convention rule when having ones coat cut?

Many thanks

[HappyStroller]

Cape - no vent

Overcoats, topcoats - single vent

Raincoats - no vent

Anoraks, winter jackets - no vent

Frock coat, morning cutaway, evening tailcoat - single centre vent
Stroller, dinner jacket - no vent

Executive suit jacket - side (for English) vents

Blazer - side vents
Country jackets - single centre vent

Spencer jacket - no vent
Smoking jacket - owner's preference
House jacket - owner's preference

Convention used to rule, but parochial, social exclusionary and ostracist or tribal practices are being abandoned as progress in human rights advance and distribution of wealth changes with the times.

But bear in mind, as a Hindu, I sometimes practise the Caste system.

[Costi]

http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... php?t=7808

HS, you forgot dressing gowns...

[storeynicholas]

...and hunt coats, (frock or hacking), hacking jackets, norfolk jackets, shooting jackets, reefer jackets - but I ,for one, am glad for a point of reference on the anorak. Anything on the birthday suit?
NJS

[HappyStroller]

I'm afraid I've never had the privilege of seeing any lady wearing a dressing gown, except on films.

As for hunting and other outdoor purpose jackets for going after wild life, you need someone else with outdoor experience to provide the answers.

As for the birthday suit, yes, apparently this is made from a special kind of Super 2000 material. Rumours has it that our Honourable friend, Manton, may possess several yards of it; even if that is not true, at least, his knowledge of this material is unsurpassed. Because of its nature, it is impossible to see how many if any vents the brithday suit has.

[koolhistorian]

Papal protocol rules:
Vents are found in derivatives of sports jackets - i.e. riding, hunting, etc.
Ventless jackets are derivatives of court costume... the only acceptable form of lounge suit during a formal papal audience.
My 2 euro cents!

[storeynicholas]

But Court coats had/have vents in the UK - maybe not in other parts of Europe.
NJS

[koolhistorian]

Yes, as derivatives of military dress (or, originally vice-versa). But, if you are not wearing a white tie at the Vatican (the Pope's gentlemen will wear that instead of the 16th century uniform) the other acceptable dress during a formal audience is black lounge suit without vents (specified expresis verbis). Frankly I never enquired about morning dress, if it may be acceptable. The argument was that vents are specific to sporting coats, so they are banned - you are not received by the Holy Father in trainers (at least the XIX century form). I recognize that is an extreme dress code, but it is also a good case for the discussion going around.
Some of the royals will have ventless suits during formal ceremonies where they appear in lounge suits, some will have suits with vents. Personally, I think that for a lay - person it is matter of taste and tailor's cut rather than convention... As is the debate of brown in town, sports jacket, blazers, etc. The americans seem to be more sticky to convention, europeans not. For example Sarkozy is wearing more blazers than Chirac or Mitterand (who had a problem when a "no-tie meeting" was programed for him and Gorbatchev at Latche, his farm; he sported a french traditional button - up coat rather than appearing with the "cou nude" or to wear an ascot, which in continental europe is seen as a dandyish accessory...
Its all about local perception than a general rule....

[storeynicholas]

I still don't understand what you mean about Court coats having no vents. White tie, which also became alternative Court dress in the Court of St James's, and is still worn by Ambassadors at the State Opening of Partliament, plainly has a vented coat and the old Court coats did too - I even have a photograph of the Lord Chamberlain's recent 1st class Court coat made by Henry Poole and it too has a vent, so I don't understand the link between these and the proscription in the Papal Palace of vented coats.
NJS

[Costi]

I'm afraid I've never had the privilege of seeing any lady wearing a dressing gown, except on films.

A terrible waste! Well, it takes a rare breed of a lady to look handsome in a man’s dressing gown…

Koolhistorian, interesting what the papal protocol prescribes. But can you see any use for a black, ventless lounge suit beyond visiting the Pope?

[koolhistorian]

Well, some of my jackets are ventless, and some suits ... goes with my figure (body by un-fortune to quote Manton). As I am not a rider, I don't see why I should wear vents ...
Regarding the origin of laymen court coats - they derive from military uniforms of the XVII-XVIII century, the aulic costume for the Vatican is derived from robe (also for judges and academia).
Long tails are riding suits at the origin, so a derivation of sporting suits. At the Vatican, the Pope's gentlemen were wearing, up to this century a renaissance costume, their white tie, as for 2000, when I saw them was with knee-length pants and long, black silk socks - as in the costume of the Order of the Garter, not with long pants as in "traditional" white tie. I was admitting that it is an extreme case, and that it is not always the case. On the other hand, the anthropological explanation for considering vents as less formal than ventless is, in my view, that more formal wear will cover more of the body - the case of the robe - which means that you are not interested in the physical body, but in the official function (the judges are de-corporalised in order to better represent the institution of justice..).

[RWS]

Well, some of my jackets are ventless, and some suits ... . As I am not a rider, I don't see why I should wear vents ...

For ease of movement and for a neater appearance both in motion and when seated. Whether or not you choose to have your coats vented is nevertheless up to you.

Regarding the origin of laymen court coats - they derive from military uniforms of the XVII-XVIII century . . . .

Not so, I think; rather, from civil dress. But most military uniforms of the time were, in fact, vented: again, as much for ease of movement as anything else.

At the Vatican, the Pope's gentlemen were wearing, up to this century a renaissance costume, their white tie, as for 2000, when I saw them was with knee-length pants and long, black silk socks - as in the costume of the Order of the Garter, not with long pants as in "traditional" white tie. . . .

Rather than dress from the Renaissance, this the earliest form of what we now term "white tie": with stock in place of bowtie, the ordinary dress (then, not always so drab as now) of professional men and merchants in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. True, though, that trousers did not until the 1820s or even '30s regain the ubiquity they'd previously enjoyed only among ancient Teutonic tribesmen.

. . . . the anthropological explanation for considering vents as less formal than ventless is, in my view, that more formal wear will cover more of the body - the case of the robe - which means that you are not interested in the physical body, but in the official function (the judges are de-corporalised in order to better represent the institution of justice..).

An interesting and plausible explanation. Thanks, "koolhistorian".

[HappyStroller]

Fortunately, I have two jackets which have no vent - a dinner jacket and a navy blazer, as per Manton's prescription. I can't remember if my stroller has vents since it was stored away during Winter. I noticed President Bush did not kiss His Holiness' ring when He welcomed Him at the airfield. Do lay gentlemen have to? I am partially Hindu as I am a devotee of the Goddess Lakshm,i and Taoist too.

Papal protocol rules:
Vents are found in derivatives of sports jackets - i.e. riding, hunting, etc.
Ventless jackets are derivatives of court costume... the only acceptable form of lounge suit during a formal papal audience.
My 2 euro cents!

[koolhistorian]

No, if you are not a catholic. It would had been "special" if G.W. would had kissed the ring, as he was there as PotUS welcoming another Head of State. A papal visit is always dual- religious (as the head of the Catholic Church) and as an HoS.
The rules I've mentioned are for one visiting the Pope at the Vatican City so - when in Rome do what the Romans do.

[koolhistorian]

No, if you are not a catholic. It would had been "special" if G.W. would had kissed the ring, as he was there as PotUS welcoming another Head of State. A papal visit is always dual- religious (as the head of the Catholic Church) and as an HoS.
The rules I've mentioned are for one visiting the Pope at the Vatican City so - when in Rome do what the Romans do.