The London Lounge

i have been thumbing thru some twist samples over the weekend and i have been wondering , what is the difference between twist and the same weave in a normal worsted?

cheers!

All worsted cloth is woven from twisted yarns. You can't make yarn without twisting it in the spinning process.

So-called "High Twist" (or sometimes just "twist") fabrics attempt to replicate the properties of heavier cloth by using yarns that are twisted in the spinning process to a much higher degree of tension than normal. The idea is that fewer total yarns will behave better -- drape better, wrinkle less -- if they are twisted tightly. This technique is typically used for tropical worsteds and other lightweight cloths.

I think it makes the resulting cloth slightly rougher and "nubbier." It also fuzzes up any pattern a bit. The finishing tends not to look as crisp and polished, which is often a nice look for a summer suit anyway.

One also sees the term in heavier worsteds:

http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardy ... o=H?cate=S?

This may refer to a "high-twist" yarn, but I seem to remember that it might also mean a yarn created from two different colors to provide a mottled appearance.

See also

http://www.hollandandsherry.com/pages/a ... me_etc.htm

'... It also fuzzes up any pattern a bit...'

Manton, I would have expected the opposite of the above to be true from a 'High Twist' yarn. Wouldn't the greater degree of twist make the external surface of the yarn smoother and reduce it's overall diameter,which would imply that it would produce a more defined, sharper patterm similar to the way high super numbered cotton yarns in shirtings give greater pattern definition and sharper colours...

formby wrote:'... It also fuzzes up any pattern a bit...'

Manton, I would have expected the opposite of the above to be true from a 'High Twist' yarn. Wouldn't the greater degree of twist make the external surface of the yarn smoother and reduce it's overall diameter,which would imply that it would produce a more defined, sharper patterm similar to the way high super numbered cotton yarns in shirtings give greater pattern definition and sharper colours...

No, because it sort of "knarls" the yarn, like crepe. The fibers are not as smooth as straight.

Take a look at Smith Gilt Twist and you will see what I mean.

manton wrote:

formby wrote:'... It also fuzzes up any pattern a bit...'

Manton, I would have expected the opposite of the above to be true from a 'High Twist' yarn. Wouldn't the greater degree of twist make the external surface of the yarn smoother and reduce it's overall diameter,which would imply that it would produce a more defined, sharper patterm similar to the way high super numbered cotton yarns in shirtings give greater pattern definition and sharper colours...

No, because it sort of "knarls" the yarn, like crepe. The fibers are not as smooth as straight.

Take a look at Smith Gilt Twist and you will see what I mean.

Manton, you seem to be correct on this...

http://www.fibrecrafts.com/resource/fac ... basics.asp

manton wrote:All worsted cloth is woven from twisted yarns. You can't make yarn without twisting it in the spinning process.

So-called "High Twist" (or sometimes just "twist") fabrics attempt to replicate the properties of heavier cloth by using yarns that are twisted in the spinning process to a much higher degree of tension than normal. The idea is that fewer total yarns will behave better -- drape better, wrinkle less -- if they are twisted tightly. This technique is typically used for tropical worsteds and other lightweight cloths.

I think it makes the resulting cloth slightly rougher and "nubbier." It also fuzzes up any pattern a bit. The finishing tends not to look as crisp and polished, which is often a nice look for a summer suit anyway.

Manton thank you!

so for all thing considered - would a seem like a good cloth for HK a s the benifits of drape with the ability to keep the weight down.

For those who haven't seen these kind of fabrics themselves, I would like to insert a caution that you not read more into manton's comments than he wrote. Twist cloth is a bit springier and slightly more gnarled, but the effect on pattern is not so great as to make it fuzzy. Rather, it is fuzzier than a clear cut worsted. Sort of like looking through a slightly smudged glass. I find the effect is quite nice, both on the pattern and on the ground, which will typically have more than one shade, or at least appear to.

Here is an example of a twist suiting from the e-bay seller. He seems to have a lot of it. I have some, and the effect is as you see, although the pattern and colors are slightly (only slightly) brighter and crisper than the photo.



My point is only that you should not expect something that will be mistaken for a tweed or a flannel - rather, it will be somewhere between a worsted and a tweed.

Even without the benefit of the springy crispness, I like twist fabrics for the look - like a hopsack, it creates a slightly less formal appearance than an ordinary worsted, yet is still clearly within the realm of town suitings.

dopey wrote:. . . . Here is an example of a twist suiting from the e-bay seller. . . .

Which eBay seller, Dopey? (Though I probably shouldn't ask, having bought hundreds of yards of cloth over the past few years.)

Sorry. This one. I thought there was only one regular cloth dealer on ebay and that people were familiar with him.

I have written about this elsewhere. His prices are very good, but you are very much gambling on quality and, especially, appearance. There is simply no way to be certain of the colors and the specific weaves from the photos and the spare descriptions. I have gotten some great stuff and also some junk.

Ah, yes. The nicest fellow but, I agree, one who writes and shows too little for good evaluation: the source of much of my hoard, some of which is, as you point out, fit only for donation to charity.

Thanks, Dopey. You've saved me from financial ruin!

i was thumbing thru the samples again last night and i noticed i i held them up to the light that the seem more porious than normal worsted even in weaves that are normally less porious.

so it seems that twist is the perfect match for breathability and drape - no i just need to try one

luk-cha wrote:i was thumbing thru the samples again last night and i noticed i i held them up to the light that the seem more porious than normal worsted even in weaves that are normally less porious.

so it seems that twist is the perfect match for breathability and drape - no i just need to try one

FWIW, I am having a three-piece SB made from one of John G. Hardy's Dorchester range (ref. # 1952). What attracted me was the weight (14 oz.), and the description of "Town and Country suiting" given on the website, as I now have enough dark stripes in my closet (well, perhaps not enough, but It is getting harder and harder to justify ordering more...). To my uninitiated eye, these cloths seem "dry" to the touch, but with a more "mottled" appearance. I hope to have found a compromise in versatility between heavy tweeds (which I like very much but sadly have few occasions to wear) and city worsteds, in other words something "informal" to wear in either a city or country setting. I think it would go with either black or brown shoes. I do not think of this suit as a summer suit however, given the cloth weight.
Hereunder a link to the individual cloth:
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardy ... =128300148?

Best regards,

Frog in Suit

What an enticing cloth, FrogiS! I'll be very much interested in seeing how it works up -- who's making for you?

RWS wrote:What an enticing cloth, FrogiS! I'll be very much interested in seeing how it works up -- who's making for you?

RWS,

Thank you for your reply. It is in the capable hands of Meyer & Mortimer/Jones Chalk & Dawson, on Sackville Street (Mr. Paul Munday). SB, 3 button coat with notched lapels, with horizontal pockets and an extra ticket pocket (all with flaps), SB waistcoat with lapels, trousers with braces, single pleats and turnups (2 side pockets plus two back pockets with flaps) . Although the site describes the cloth as "brown", the overall impression is of a fairly grey brown, hence my hope that it can be worn in a city setting without violating any rules.
I plan to post pictures of my suits (recent or still to come) once I learn how to do so and after coordinating with my Dear Wife (who will operate the camera).

Kind regards,

Frog in Suit