The London Lounge

“They’d look at the level of interest on these internet forums as going way beyond what is appropriate.”

I am going to have to disagree with dear Mr. Manton on this one, knowing the way men can be concerned about their figure. I am quite sure that, given internet access, the aristos of yore would have had a laptop secreted away in the stable to grab a peak every once and awhile at the ole Lounge. The knotting of an ascot, the sweep of a stroller, the cut of a hat could have meant a good marriage as opposed to a mediocre one, the favors or disdain of a lovely lady. The more things change..

Oh, and they most certainly would have a copy of “The Suit” tucked away as well.

alden wrote: The knotting of an ascot, the sweep of a stroller, the cut of a hat could have meant a good marriage as opposed to a mediocre one, the favors or disdain of a lovely lady. The more things change...

Or, for the young or merely gentle rather than noble, whether they were admitted to Lady X's soirée or the patronage of Lord Y; or received a safe parliamentary seat, commission in a fashionable regiment, or clerical living at his disposal; or nominated for membership at White's.

A wonderful view of all this (from a very young man who often puts his foot awry) appears in James Boswell's (later of the Life of Johnson) London Journal. Boswell has come to town rebelling against his father's plan for him to read for the Scottish bar, seeking fame and advancement in the great city. HIs relative outlays on clothing, food, and lodging are telling, as is his conscious attempt to develop a proper "address." At one point he tests his address by ordering a sword on credit, having no references. When the shop owner freely offers him credit, Boswell returns to lecture the man for his imprudence!

A short book and hilarious, somewhat self-serving (it was composed as letters dispatched at intervals to a friend back in Scotland) but with an unusually detailed glimpse of a young bachelor's domestic arrangements and habits. Boswell, of course, failed miserably in his attempt to win a Guards commission.

I mention this to raise the perennial debate topic of whether men properly dress for women or other men. The answer is both, of course (and yes, themselves first) and with a variety of ends in mind. But as alden has said elsewhere, the elegant man will not be seen to be excessively preoccupied with his dress. That's why "lounge" is an apt name for this forum; it suggests the respectable pursuit of a shared interest in a reserved space--a club, if you will--rather than a public obsession or performance.

Long may it prosper.

couch wrote:. . . But as alden has said elsewhere, the elegant man will not be seen to be excessively preoccupied with his dress. That's why "lounge" is an apt name for this forum; it suggests the respectable pursuit of a shared interest in a reserved space--a club--if you will, rather than a public obsession or performance.

Long may it prosper.

. . . and now the Financial Times has blown our cover.

I say that in only partial jest.

What happens in the L stays in the L!

dopey wrote:

couch wrote:. . . . the respectable pursuit of a shared interest in a reserved space . . . rather than a public obsession or performance. . . .

. . . and now the Financial Times has blown our cover. . . .

I'm surprised that the numbers of new members and "visitors" haven't sky-rocketed. We may yet avoid the madness -- and indecorousness -- of public display.

I'm afraid I don't know exactly what the issue is. The quote apparently is attributed to one of our most esteemed gentleman, M. Anton, but who are the 'they' that is referred to? May I suggest respectfully, Sir, perhaps a solution to an apparent misunderstanding (maybe it's only my impression) is knowing exactly who are the 'they'.

Also, 'those' forums - which ones? After all, as I understand it, LL is where we (I think) are trying to find what what is most appropriate.

alden wrote:

“They’d look at the level of interest on these internet forums as going way beyond what is appropriate.”

I am going to have to disagree with dear Mr. Manton on this one, knowing the way men can be concerned about their figure. I am quite sure that, given internet access, the aristos of yore would have had a laptop secreted away in the stable to grab a peak every once and awhile at the ole Lounge. The knotting of an ascot, the sweep of a stroller, the cut of a hat could have meant a good marriage as opposed to a mediocre one, the favors or disdain of a lovely lady. The more things change..

Oh, and they most certainly would have a copy of “The Suit” tucked away as well.

I agree with Manton in that the vast majority of "them" took bespoke clothes for granted and without great interest. Certainly some obsessives, then as now, would enjoy lengthy discussion. But the crowd which would have looked down on someone who had to buy his own furniture, or on a dinner guest who complimented his host's artwork, certainly would have thought it infra dig to focus attention on the clothes rather than on the purposes for which they were made -- hunting, shooting, fishing, riding, socializing, dancing, etc.

RWS wrote:I'm surprised that the numbers of new members and "visitors" haven't sky-rocketed. We may yet avoid the madness -- and indecorousness -- of public display.

Like the Rotary clubs, w/ fines?

I don't mean to show off when I say that I know two Earls and I think both would be baffled by the thought of us Loungers obsessing over the minutiae of bespoke dress. The Earl I know least well has a penchant for slightly flashy Gucci loafers and drives a rather conspicuous Porsche Cayenne, although is in other ways quite elegant. The Earl I know most well wears Oliver Brown cords in vivid red and vivid green, wears a navy fleece/microfibre bomber jacket indoors and out for eight months of the year and is generally uninterested in clothes. I believe he's fairly representative of the British aristocracy who are not, as a rule, a very sensual bunch and are little interested in the things we'd consider important. They know what the things they like, and they stick with them. They are not on the look out for new ways to make their lives richer, as I am, and as I suspect many members here are.

I'll match, raise, and generally agree. But my own interest in things satorial is to please and coddle myself, not to accomodate others (if it were, my wardrobe would be smaller -- and cheaper); in that, there's not much difference between this interest of mine and comparable interests among either the British nobility or the Continental.

Human nature is pretty much the same the world over.