The London Lounge

Hello,
First post in the lounge. Might I say this place has a wealth of information for enthusiasts.

I was wondering if anyone here could direct me towards a source onine or a book which explains the finer points of suiting fabric. How to tell what is a quality fabric and one of lesser quality.

Thanks.

I don't think there is one. Or at least one focused on what would interest a customer (as opposed to technical information that would interest a mill). I too would love to know if there is. I seem to recall manton mentioning that he has seen an older book with some of this information but my recollection is pretty fuzzy on this.

I have often thought that an extensive article on this would be a great boon to the Lounge and the web is a great medium for this type of work. What I had in mind would be a hyperlinked glossary that would have entries for different yarns (lambswool, mohair, silk, linen), different classes (worsted, woolen, tweeds), different weaves (sharkskin, twill, serge) and different patterns (houndstooth, pinstripe, ropestripe, glencheck). It would have lots of photos and lots of crosslinks. Separate entrioes could cover weight. The most important and interesting entry would be on applications, e.g., when is gabardine better than fresco in the summer.

Since I haven't the substantive knowledge to do this, it is an easy suggestion to make. If someone who knows what he is talking about wants to do this project, I will certainly help.

The book The Elegant Man, by Villarosa and Angeli, Random House, has an extensive set of illustrations and nicely written commentary. It is not just suiting cloths. I think the reputation of the mill or woolen merchant means something, to those of us, not in the trade. Certainly handling the cloth helps, and that is an acquired skill of course. For the hobbyist, I think going with an H. Lesser suiting cloth is foolproof. I was told years ago, they don't sell any shlock. Certainly something like their Golden Bale is best of breed.

Hello!

Don't know a particular book about the determination of a fabrics quality. Easiest way would be to find a school book for tailors or dressmakers.
The following procedures should be found there.
If you want to check if the fabric contains the fibers named on the label(for example 100% pure new wool) here is a trick I learned as a tailor:

Pick some fibers of the cloth and burn them. You won't be able to distinguish between wool and cashmere, but you can find out, if it's pure wool and/or hair(like cashmere) cloth or mixed with synthetics.
Burned wool smells like burned hair or horn, it doesn't burn for long, in fact it only glows and you can rub the remnants between your fingers to black ash. If there are synthetics in the cloth, it will smell of burned plastic and the remnants will be hard like melted plastic.
Viscose(used for lining), cotton and linen burn and smell like paper.

Another trick is to hold the cloth with both hands, stretch it over both thumbs and move them outwards. If you can move the threads, it's not a good quality fabric. You might be able to deform the softer cloths, but the weave should not open.
Grab the material with your hand and press it for a few seconds in your fist. A good material will almost completely jump back to it's original shape, leaving only a few creases. If the creases stay it's not good(linen and cotton are an exception here).
Basically you should go for pure natural fiber cloths, best with a selvage telling chosen material and the mill's name. Top class cloths never contain synthetics.

I'm sorry, if this didn't answer your question!


SG

HappyStroller wrote:. . . Nicholas Antongiavanni's The SUIT - a Machiavellian Approach to Men's Style (I'm still intellectually challenged in figuring out the Machiavellian element) was the first book where many of these cloth were encountered by me. . .

You need but read "The Prince" to see the connection. That means read the book itself, not a book about the book. It is possible that translations into some languages might change the feel of the text, in which case the connection might be obscured. But any translation into English will make the parody obvious.

HappyStroller wrote:. . . . [T]here seem to be too many clothiers offering what they claim is pure cotton material, but whose plasticity or departure from the touch that traditional cotton has makes me suspicious . . . .

Chemical finishes given to cotton (to make it resist wrinkles, etc.) or, for that matter, to any other cloth can distort its feel and hand. I much prefer to buy pure, untreated cloth; but this is becoming harder and harder to find.

It would be nice if there were a good book with respectably sized samples, e.g., 3" by 5", of all the different kinds of cloth Dopey mentioned.

Amen!

HappyStroller wrote:Thank you for your wonderful wool testing tip, SchneiderGott,. I wonder, Sir, if there is a similar test for pure cotton, because there seem to be too many clothiers offering what they claim is pure cotton material, but whose plasticity or departure from the touch that traditional cotton has makes me suspicious,
.

Yes, the same fire test applies to cotton, and linen too. But it only tells you if it contains synthetics or not, it won't tell you if there is viscose in it, because that is also a natural substance, although the production method is artificial.

Burn some threads, or a snippet. If it is pure cotton, pure linen, or pure linen/cotton mix, it will burn with a yellowish glow, smell like burning paper, and give off grey smoke. The ash will be very light and fluffy. Rub the ash between your fingers, if there is any grain or little balls in it, there is some synthetic fiber in it. Also, if the burning cloth or thread melts and curls up: synthetic mix.

an example from the aforementioned book by Villarosa and Angeli, page 19:



One of about 20 pages on various cloths including tweeds, linen, cottons, and so called 'precious' fibers, e.g. cashmere, vicuna, etc.

If you're interested in any particular cloths, post the name of the merchants, with the cloth numbers and I'm sure LL members would be happy to tell you how it made up etc.

Sounds like a wonderful book to own, tteplitzmd. Thank you for your helpful images, too, Sir.

I checked up one of those online bookstores only to find the book they have list only one author (Riccardo Villarosa), 1992, also published by Random House, so I'm not sure if your source is a much later edition.

tteplitzmd wrote:The book The Elegant Man, by Villarosa and Angeli, Random House, has an extensive set of illustrations and nicely written commentary. It is not just suiting cloths. I think the reputation of the mill or woolen merchant means something, to those of us, not in the trade. Certainly handling the cloth helps, and that is an acquired skill of course. For the hobbyist, I think going with an H. Lesser suiting cloth is foolproof. I was told years ago, they don't sell any shlock. Certainly something like their Golden Bale is best of breed.

My book is copyright 1990, the first US edition. I believe it was oriiginaly published in Italian as Homo Elegans by Idealibri Spa, Milan, also copyright 1990. Further it appears there was an English edition published in Italy, also by Idealiibri. Hope this informaiton helps.

should we assume then that LL members are walking into their taylors' and setting fire to fabric samples?!?

Well, no one's ever pulled that trick on me, but whenever somebody asks, I have no problem demonstrating the pureness of a cloth by burning a snippet. All you need a piece the size of, say, a match.