The London Lounge

Gents,

I’d like to ask your advice.

Ever since going salmon fishing with my grandfather as a teenager, the desire to own a tweed suit has been fermenting slowly and gaining strength.

My thinking starts with a traditional tweed suit for country sports. My understanding of this type of suit is that it has four pieces: a jacket, a waistcoat, a pair of plus twos (for the daytime activities) and a pair of long trousers (to change into when the shooting or fishing is over).

Which brings us to the present day: I am finally in a position to buy the suit. I have a piece of extremely classic heavy Scottish tweed, a picture of which you can see below. It is a fantastic bit of cloth. I believe that it is around 600g/m. To my eyes, the cloth appears bulletproof. The distance between the blue stripes is about 6.5cm.



What I would like is to run my ideas by the members, and get some feedback on whether I’m going in the right direction.

I am not really anticipating using the suit for shooting or fishing. There may come a day when I do, but at the moment, it is for sheer aesthetic pleasure. That said, part of the aesthetic pleasure for me is the authenticity of the garment. I am least sure about the plus-twos.

So here are my thoughts:

Jacket

-three button
-two vents
-notched lapels
-welted pockets, with flaps
-ticket pocket
-slanted hip pockets
-horn buttons
-three? four? buttons on the cuff

Waistcoat

-single breasted
-lapels
-four pockets

Trousers

-braces backs/ high waist?
-side adjusters? (is the fabric too thick to make side adjusters useful?)
-turn-ups - 4.5cm
-two pleats, inward facing
-straight pockets on the side seams
-no back pockets
-button fly

Plus-twos

-braces backs? or not?
-side adjusters?
-button fly
-pockets???
-pleats???
-cut???

I’d be very grateful for your comments, whether on the authenticity of the features, practicality, or anything else.

Thanks,

Hillier

make sure you have enough pockets because you will probably be able to wear it without a topocoat, an inside envelope pocket is often useful, i often have pleats in a vest for comfort
make sure the pants are pretty loose, if you want a very sporty look, you could pleat the at the shoulders and put a belt in the back

Etutee has posted some interesting tweed suits.
I had posted some links to his images in
http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... ight=tweed

I like tweed suits and have had a few made
http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... ight=tweed

I find them very useful for non business use.

-

Just to add a couple of items to the list:

I would suggest a 'swing-back' cut to the coat so that you can shoot without any impediment. Also a storm-tab on the collar may be a good idea.

Thanks for the comments!

Ed Hayes:

Thanks for the ideas, particularly about the trousers. I think you are right, this cloth is thick and heavy, if the trousers were too narrow it would be like walking in treacle.

What is an envelope pocket? I'm guessign it is a big pocket, maybe foolscap size... Is it what I would call a poacher's pocket, a big pocket in the back or sides of the coat?

Oscarsfan:

I think you are right, if this suit goes well, I'm going to practically live in it in cold weather. i've got a feeling that the more 'lived in' it gets, the better it will be. I'll even wear it to the office on Fridays.

ER:

I'm still thinking about the back. I'm more likely to fish in it than shoot, but you also need a bit of freedom of movement for fishing.

I'm also considering the tab lapel... I'm also planning an odd tweed jacket, and I think the tab will go on that one.

I'm still unsure about the plus-twos. Can anyone give any advice on standard features, or better still, show a pic or two?

Thanks!

Dear Sir,

Congratulations on having chosen a lovely tweed. Now I would suggest you embellish it as little as possible because the tweed itself will do a good deal of the talking.

Adding thickness and weight in the way of pocket flaps makes a coat cumbersome. Try to keep it as simple as possible given your intended purpose. If you want gusseted pockets to carry kit around the outdoors you can choose to have them or you can prefer a good set of inner pockets that can serve the same purpose when needed and keep the line of the coat cleaner and slimmer.

Avoid like the plague the cliché like ticket pockets and double slanted pockets (intended for hacking coats) unless you have a real ornithological penchant and wish to relocate to Schinckendortelsdorf.

If you plan on any real outdoors use like hunting, fishing, chopping logs or whiskey drinking make sure and equip your coat with an action back. The half belt is optional but seems to work well with the action back.

Slanted pockets on your trousers are easier to access in outdoors use. Back pockets are also useful. Pleats on heavy tweeds do not work too well. If you really do not like wearing a belt you can go with braces but keep the cut simple and full.

My last tweed suit completed this summer in 650 gms tweed is configured more or less as follows.


Jacket

-three button
-two vents
-notched lapels
-welted pockets
-horn buttons
-one button on the cuff
-action back
-half belt back

Waistcoat

-single breasted
-four pockets

Trousers

-belt loops
-plain front
-turn-ups 5 cms
-jeans pockets
-two back pockets, one buttoned and one not buttoned
-button fly

Plus-twos

-belt loops
-plain front
-slanted pockets
-two back pockets, one buttoned and one not buttoned
-button fly
-buckle and strap knee fastening



Good luck with the suit and keep us posted.

Michael Alden

alden wrote:Avoid like the plague the cliché like ticket pockets and double slanted pockets (intended for hacking coats) unless you have a real ornithological penchant and wish to relocate to Schinckendortelsdorf.

A blanket injunction? That would be a shame. It's easy to overdo them (and there are many that should have been left on the tailor's bench), but on a soft-ish sport jacket with a subtle pattern they offer a nice look, especially for the long of torso. Real utility, too, for those of use who wish to keep their house keys out of traffic.

A tweed injunction. We are talking about a tweed suit to be used for Salmon fishing in Scotland..what ticket would our friend be carrying in his TP?

alden wrote:Dear Sir,

or you can prefer a good set of inner pockets that can serve the same purpose when needed and keep the line of the coat cleaner and slimmer.




Good luck with the suit and keep us posted.

Michael Alden

Michael

Your thoughts are very interesting.

Could possibly elaborate on what you consider "a good set of inner pockets".

Duncan

Hello Duncan

A good set of internal pockets are those one would design to carry around a defined set of items necessary during a romp in the woods: knife, compass, flask, lighter, cigar case etc.

I have a large pocket sewn on the inside in the way of a game bag to carry most everything. One might think to have two large pockets, one on each side.

Michael

alden wrote: We are talking about a tweed suit to be used for Salmon fishing in Scotland..what ticket would our friend be carrying in his TP?

I

That would be a "tippet pocket".

I think that the real question is whether or not the garment is really meant for sport. If it is, as Aldens seems to be, then moving the jacket in the direction of a "norfolk" with gussets behind the shoulder and a half or whole belt makes a lot of sense to my thinking. If you want to shoot or fish, you really have to consider the required range of motion for participating in the sport. If the garment set is really hybrid, in the sense a walking suit with double duty in a pub at days end (or middle), then a more traditional "sport" coat can be just fine. INMO, unless yours is an equestrian sport, I would eschew the ticket pocket and slanted flaps. If you are going to be serious about being outdoors, having pockets and the jacket cut lare enough for a good wool sweater is essential. A poachers "hare pocket" , what Alden describes as a game pocket is great for this.

Because you are looking at a set of clothes with interchangeable parts, keeping themn relatively simple in outward apearance is the best way to go. Customize the insides.

DDM

Dear Micheal (and all),

Thank you for your suggestions, I will take them on board and consider how to proceed. I particularly appreciate the tips regarding pleats on the trousers, the ticket pocket, pocket flaps on the coat, and the plus-twos.

At this point, I'm going to take some time to think about how practical I actually need the suit to be, and if I don't need it to be practical, how authentic I want it to be. Of course, another option would be to buy another two metres of tweed and have two coats made up!

On the topic of the plus-twos, I seem to remember seeing plus-twos with the pockets mentioned on the "Tartan trousers by Ambrosi" thread, referred to variously as carter's, frog-mouth or J pockets. Would these pockets be a useful option? I think they may be good if you spend any time prone (stalking deer or sleeping off whisky) to prevent things falling out of pockets. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Ed Hillier

I have these pockets on a couple of suits and they are no better or worse at keeping things in as far as I am concerned.

I may be wrong but are these pockets not usually found on pleated trousers which maybe what you are going for now?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I think the J pockets are practical if you are going to be engaged in some form of work or recreation outdoors. I find accessing things in the pocket to be easier. They are also marginally better at keeping things in the pocket and not in the countryside.

The J pocket is also more aesthetically pleasing on a flat front trouser (see Ambrosi); and while they should be standard on same, as Mr. Culverwood has suggested, they are often omitted in the US and on the Continent. Since you are making a bespoke order you can choose the detailing that suits your use best.

Of course, another option would be to buy another two metres of tweed and have two coats made up!

I don't think you will hear many arguments from the members here for that solution to the problem.

M Alden