The London Lounge

Which is considered to be more classic, all other things being equal?

I would say round, based on old pictures. Cleverley aficianados say that the "chisel" was something of an innovation when George Cleverley began pushing it at Tuczec's.

With the chisel toe being an innovation, as Manton points out, it is hard to call it "classic" in the sense of "with venerated precedence". However, a well done chisled or just squared-off toe is certainly classy in my book.

DDM

Agreed, DD. However there seem to be fewer example of well done round toe than there are square/chisel.

I like an oval toe shape, myself. Square toes look good with certain ensembles, but they never fail to hurt my feet. My toes just don't work with them.

I had tears of joy in my eyes when I opened the box with my simple black-cap chisel-toe oxfords from Cleverley! With any luck, there should be another gift box from Uncle George when I get home today.

DD MacDonald wrote:With the chisel toe being an innovation, as Manton points out, it is hard to call it "classic" in the sense of "with venerated precedence". However, a well done chisled or just squared-off toe is certainly classy in my book.

DDM

smoothjazzone wrote:I had tears of joy in my eyes when I opened the box with my simple black-cap chisel-toe oxfords from Cleverley! With any luck, there should be another gift box from Uncle George when I get home today.

DD MacDonald wrote:With the chisel toe being an innovation, as Manton points out, it is hard to call it "classic" in the sense of "with venerated precedence". However, a well done chisled or just squared-off toe is certainly classy in my book.

DDM

Can I see a show of hands for picture requests on this?

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Maybe Manton or someone else with a digital camera can help me here.

oscarsfan wrote:

smoothjazzone wrote:I had tears of joy in my eyes when I opened the box with my simple black-cap chisel-toe oxfords from Cleverley! With any luck, there should be another gift box from Uncle George when I get home today.

DD MacDonald wrote:With the chisel toe being an innovation, as Manton points out, it is hard to call it "classic" in the sense of "with venerated precedence". However, a well done chisled or just squared-off toe is certainly classy in my book.

DDM

Can I see a show of hands for picture requests on this?

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smoothjazzone wrote:Maybe Manton or someone else with a digital camera can help me here.

That would be excellent!! I have been wondering what a pair of outrageously-flamboyant-conservative-business-dress-shoes look like.

What about these ones (maker's marks cleverly hidden ) ?

I like Gaziano and Girling's taxonomy of lasts in their catalog, found in the following link:

http://www.gazianogirling.com/content.html

Let the opening screen fade, then click on "Shoes" at the top, and then on "Made to Order" at the bottom. Finally, click on "Last Designs." Sorry I can't figure out how to bring it up immediately.

In the G&G categories, I particularly like the Smart Round and the Soft Square last designs. (Perhaps the "Smart Round" form is what Marabunta is referring to as "the oval toe shape.") Both seem like modern "classics"--the latter understood as (a) "adhering or conforming to established standards and principles" or (b) "formal, refined, and restrained in style."

kolecho wrote:Which is considered to be more classic, all other things being equal?

Classic English is always round with a defined point or vertex, not a blunt, circular round. I don't think modern men would consider the Cleveley chiselled toe a classic; most would vote on Green's 202, I think.

Edit: By defined point I meant that there is visibly a vertex where the shoes are pointing, and it will align with the crease of the trousers. It is still round in nature, not a pointy toe.

May I add to this thread by recalling an anecdote of Osbert Lancaster, a minor dandy? In 1963 Anne Scott-James was writing an article, My Clothes and I where her subject was Lancaster. She noted that he wore old-fashioned shoes with rounded toes which she suggested were almost stubby. 'On the contrary,' he replied, 'this pair is tremendously pointed by my standards. As pointed as a gentlemen can go.'

Enough said.