The London Lounge

Gentlemen:

I own a few Savile Row suits made by a former A&S cutter and quite like how they fit and wear over time. However, every once in a while, I wonder if an expertly cut Italian suit may not be tad more stylish and yet classic. I therefore consider taking a trip to Milan and have a bespoke suit made by Brioni on Via Gesu (which is a closer destination than Rome for me).

Can any of you gentlemen share an experience with Brioni bespoke and how the suits compare in craftsmanship to SR suits? Any cutter worth recommending? Milan better than Rome?

Many thanks in advance.

Mann

I had Brioni make a supposedly bespoke sportcoat a few years ago. I think that it was actually a costly made-to-measure and would not willingly repeat the experience.

Consider Rubinacci or even Castangia instead. From what I’ve seen in the Lounge, you may receive better value.

Brioni in Milan say they do a real bespoke suit with multiple fittings. I don't know exactly what that means since the term bespoke is usually misused. In the USA, I believe that Brioni only offer MTM. If they will really make a paper pattern and then cut and fit you for a true bespoke suit, I think the potential for a great suit is there. I think the cost will be about the same as using Rubinacci in Milan.

I think part of the problem is language here. Massanzug in German or su misura in Italian often translates to made to measure rather than to bespoke in English. Berhard Roetzel writes that Brioni in Rome does make a bespoke su misura suit (a pattern is made from scratch) rather than a MTM su misura suit which is what you get everywhere else from them - unless Brioni in Milan really do make a traditional bespoke garment as has been suggested.

The French have a great way of putting it by making a distinction between la petite mesure and la grande mesure. Brioni mostly do la petite mesure - and that in English is definitetly NOT bespoke.

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum

We need our investigator based in Milan to suss out this matter.

Jona....????

I hear my ears whistling ...

I know that Brioni does real bespoke in Milan.

But there are many in Milan , including Rubinacci and Caraceni, and many cheaper. in fact I go to Verona . Average price in milano is 1500 incluing fabric.

Su misura is bespoke, but many shops claims su misura but it' mtm. It's not a definitive term. Alwys ask which is the process and if they draw a pattern.

Sator wrote:Berhard Roetzel writes that Brioni in Rome does make a bespoke su misura suit (a pattern is made from scratch) rather than a MTM su misura suit which is what you get everywhere else from them - unless Brioni in Milan really do make a traditional bespoke garment as has been suggested.

I heard that Brioni relocated their bespoke workshop from Rome to Milan.

Andrey

Indeed, as far as I have been able to research, Brioni does real bespoke in Rome and Milan. They have created a separate establishment for this purpose right next to their Via Gesu store in Milan.

A. Caraceni is a great name, but the boss (related to the founder Domenico Caraceni) must be 75 years old and I am looking for a steady relationship similar to that with a Savile Row cutter (I am 41 myself).

Since I do not know a great independent cutter in Italy (like Mahon, Steed or S. Hitchcock in London) but would like to try out "an Italian suit", I am turning to Brioni to ensure quality (and, alas, price). But I just hate the idea of stumbling into the Brioni premises in Milan and getting lucky (or unlucky) with whoever runs a tape over me.

Can anyone recommend a cutter at Brioni? Anyone actually done a Brioni bespoke in Milan (other than Kofi Annan)?

Jona wrote:
Su misura is bespoke, but many shops claims su misura but it' mtm. It's not a definitive term.

Which is why the way French make the distinction between la grande mesure and la petite mesure is quite useful don't you think? The terms 'su misura' or "Messanzug' can mean anything - I sense you feel they ought to mean la grande variety but as you say, it is open to abuse.

If you are going to Milano, go straight to A. Caraceni.

You won't find a better tailor.

Look at all of those beauties on the wall.

Mario will outlive us all!

Sator wrote: Which is why the way French make the distinction between la grande mesure and la petite mesure is quite useful don't you think?

They don't, except when they do. In general, you will hear bespoke or MTM referred to as "sur mesure", and almost never hear "grande mesure" unless your interlocutor is either very pretentious or knows what he is talking about. One situation is rarer than the other. The fact that the term "grande mesure" exists does not mean that it is used correctly or used often. Petite mesure or demi-mesure may be used to apply to MTM or to stock special/special orders. While I've used the term grande mesure, I've don't think I've ever heard the term "petite mesure" used by anyone. In any event, it's just as important to make sure you've defined your terms clearly in French as in any other language.

As Jona said, there are great tailors all over Italy. I agree with UC that if you are in Milan Caraceni is probably a better bet than Brioni. Although I am a Rubinacci customer, I would suggest goint to them in Naples rather than in Milan. I have heard that it is an ever so slightly better product.

All I know about Brioni is that my father used to have suits made bespoke there starting in the mid 1960s and ending around 1980 when he no longer worked in the City. When he finally decided to get rid of them in the mid 90s, they were still in terrific shape. This should tell you exactly nothing about the suits today.

If you do need to get on an airplane to get to Italy, I would probably suggest that Milan would not be your best bet. While Milan may have some of the most beautiful people in the world, their level of tailoring is not what some other cities have.

Check out the lapel belly on the light-colored Caraceni DB!

Mann,
please check you private messages - http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/pri ... lder=inbox

uppercase wrote:If you are going to Milano, go straight to A. Caraceni.

You won't find a better tailor.

Look at all of those beauties on the wall.

Mario will outlive us all!

What a beautifull tie do you wear on that photo!
My feeling says it is an unlined tie?
What brand or tiemaker is the tie?

Mario Caraceni is a very friendly man. I talked with him in his attelier when I was on a trip in Milan.