The London Lounge

As most of you know, one of my biggest gripes about modern suits is that the armholes are too big, and cause the jacket to fit awkwardly. You raise your arms and the whole jacket comes with you... feels more like a straight jacket than a suit jacket.

This photo shows one of the measurements that many (specifically made to measure firms) tailors neglect to take nowadays.



The measurement goes under the arms and behind the neck... it is a crucial measurement if you want the suit to fit well. Unfortunately I have found that many tailors use a ratio for the armhole size, and it always seems to be several inches bigger than the size of your arm.

Matt, in my experience what you are saying it is so right. But if you go to a tailor with clear ideas I think you can obtain what you want. My first coat from my tailor had several problems (big armoholes, too long coat for my taste); it was an error due also to my inexperience with bespoke suit, and my ineffectiveness to ask the right things. Now I get coats from the same tailor that are perfect, related to that measurements.

I even went so far as to measure my arm myself and take that measurement straight to the tailor. Whenever I try out a new tailor I always make it a point to specify how large the armhole should be. I have a jacket with that same measurement and it fits me very, very well, so I'm able to point to it just in case a tailor tells me that the measurement might be too small.

Alias, very good!

Guess i'll have to go in with my own armhole measurement too.

Yes, I can see the armholes are somewhat specialized. although the skirt is a bit too full for my tastes.

A ghost in the machine?

The only tailor that I have come across, in my limited experience, who takes this exact measurement is A. Caraceni in Milan.

It's not that hard to take a proper armhole measurement, as long as you have a friend help you get the measuring tape around your shoulder. Simply measure around where the armhole would be, and leave about 1" under your armpit for room.

uppercase wrote:The only tailor that I have come across, in my limited experience, who takes this exact measurement is A. Caraceni in Milan.

I have only come across one tailor who takes the armhole measurement as well and he is a man in his 30's in Long Beach who talks to the old Beverly Hills tailors who worked through Hollywood in the 30's 40's and 50's. He is big on trying to copy the suits from the era.

I know all the measurements are important for a well fitting suit, though to me the armhole measurement is probably the most important. You can see the difference in how suits fit the men in the movies in the 1930's versus how they fit today.

Look at Sean Connery as bond and how comfortable he looked wearing his suit in all situations. Sitting on the ground and eating while watching belly dancers or hanging from a moving vehicle, his jacket would ride up little if any because the armholes were close to his armpit. Pierce Brosanan's jacket on the other hand move all over the place when he moves his arms, and he takes hi jacket off for many of the major action sequences because the jacket with the lower cut armholes is just more constricting. Just stuff I have noticed while lately watching the Bond films.

I also have to intrject Clark Gable in It Happend one Night. He raise his arms and the jacket stays put. Do what he did while wearing a Hickey-Freeman jacket and you's have the collar of the jacket halfway up you neck.

Took some pics for refference.

The lower the armhole the higher the jacket rises, and the more uncomfortable it is to move around.

The higher the armhole cut, the easier it is to move around.

Modern.....................................................................................Vintage





I'll get some better pictures with a better background and more examples, though you get the idea. See how the lapels pop on the modern suit.

Poorly cut armholes ruined my first bespoke suit and it took me years to understand why high arm holes matter. The jacket is so uncomfortable that it's distracting to wear it while eating dinner.

Here's my question to the Members. Can the jacket be altered elsewhere to compensate for the poorly cut armholes, or is the jacket a total loss? I've returned to the original tailor to explain the problem twice, but his alterations have not made it tolerable. Needless to say, I've switched to a tailor who cuts a high arm hole.

Not to quibble, Matt (for I share your dislike of large armscyes, even if not yet with your intensity), but how much of the contrast obvious in the photographs between "modern" and "vintage" arises from varied cuts and buttoning points? Would the contrast be as extreme between a pair of three-button, single-breasted suits closed only by the center button?

RWS wrote: Would the contrast be as extreme between a pair of three-button, single-breasted suits closed only by the center button?

Yes, and I'll show you the pics.
It would have looked worse if I had left the top button undone, not only would the shoulder be high, the chest would have expanded heavily as well and raised the waist of the jacket even higher. I thought it was more fare with the top button fastened.

All the modern suits I have seen all have extra large armscyes (thanks for the word) which drag the suit up when you raise your arms. Vintage has not dissapointed me.