Necktie Research Request

[Mulberrywood]

Have you ever seen anything from old magazines or newspapers that has pictures or information on unlined seven-fold ties from before the 1980s?

I am writing an article and I can't find any original source materials on old seven-folds.

[Nick M]

This isn't exactly what you're looking for, but you might have some use for it - the "Open End Scarf Tie" and "Open End Four-In-Hand Tie" from a 1920s Sears catalog.

Aesthetically, they share some similarities with a modern seven-fold.

[rjman]

The Marinella book may mention them historically.

Nothing But the Best, not the Alan Bates movie but the Eric Girtin 1959 book, mentions renowned (and now departed) Jermyn St house Edouard & Butler making ties unlined out of folded silk. There are also two old Welch Margetson ties on ebay in unlined folded silk, although I don't know if they are folded seven times.

[Mulberrywood]

This isn't exactly what you're looking for, but you might have some use for it - the "Open End Scarf Tie" and "Open End Four-In-Hand Tie" from a 1920s Sears catalog.

Aesthetically, they share some similarities with a modern seven-fold.

Thank you.

Fantastic advertisement. I loved it. The top corner says 1920 if I am reading it correctly.

[Mulberrywood]

The Marinella book may mention them historically.

Nothing But the Best, not the Alan Bates movie but the Eric Girtin 1959 book, mentions renowned (and now departed) Jermyn St house Edouard & Butler making ties unlined out of folded silk. There are also two old Welch Margetson ties on ebay in unlined folded silk, although I don't know if they are folded seven times.

Thank you,

I shall try to find the book and also take a look on eBay. The general feeling that I get is that unlined folded ties were made, but not very commonly. As in not by Sears but by your tailor and in those days there were many tailors.

Whether seven folds was the standard remains to be seen.

[andreyb]

Mulberrywood,

Just stumbled on the following on the Arnys' web-site (http://www.arnys.fr):

WORKSHOP TIE

The suberb quality of this silk enables us to re-create the Arnys ties of the 1930s, entirely made and sewn by hand, without any lining or interlining, and with hand rolled edges. At that time, this tie was known as a "Seven Pleat" and at Arnys was called the "Workshop Tie" (cravate d'atelier).

You can read more on Arnys' web-site: Immutables -> Ties -> fourth picture.

Andrey

[AlexanderKabbaz]

Welch-Margetson from pre-1910 makes no mention of seven-folds. As the foremost supplier of the time, it would be prudent to note that there are no ties in their catalog of the styles presently in use. Blades were squared or asymmetrically pointed. Widths varied from 2" to as much as 10". There was little consistency and no single style which could be termed "the" necktie.

[Mulberrywood]

Andrey,

Thank you very much. I followed your directions to the fourth photo and found those very interesting ties and the historical note. I will certainly stop by their shop the next time I am in Paris.


Alex,

Thank you for your information. Is there a website that you can point me to?

I am getting the overall feeling that early ties were not standardized and that the higher end multi-fold neckties were mostly bespoke and made by someone like you or myself as opposed to the makers of the ties that were available in the Sears catalog.

Just a thought who knows maybe there were some seven-folds that were mass produced as labor was relatively less expensive in those days and silk was still made in the US.

I would love to find a costume museum with good examples of early neckties.

[AlexanderKabbaz]

Your best bet is probably the Victoria and Albert museum. Perhaps Mr. Alden could shed some light on the procedures for that?