Caution re over-advising your tailor

[dopey]

I made an observation today that I thought I would share in the hope that it proves useful to some.

I went for a first fitting on a new suit today to Raphael (and happily ran into a fellow LL member whose sartorial knowledge and creativity one can only begin to intuit from his all too rare posts). I also brought with me my trousers from my first suit, which were bothering me a bit now that I had worn them a few times. Both pairs had what I thought was a little extra cloth around the thigh - I thought perhaps they were a bit too long and that was causing the extra gathering. One pair was also a bit binding in the crotch area and I thought needed a longer rise. I tried them on one at a time. I commented to Raphael on the first pair that I thought they were a bit too long. He looked at me and the trousers and then said - “well if you think so, I can shorten them. Also, I think there is a little too much cloth here“ and he grabbed the thigh area I had noticed. Beginning to learn my lesson, on the second pair I told him what was bothering me, instead of what I thought needed to be done. He had me move the trousers up and down on my waist, fiddle with my braces, etc. He then made a few [uncomfortable] tugs and told me what he was going to do. It went too quickly for me to remember all of it - he would open the V notch in the waistband to change the angle but not widen the waist and do some other stuff. He explained that he wanted to change the balance of the trousers, not necessarily increase the length of the rise.

Why do I recount this? Well, I have noticed several posts on the various fora where people put up a picture, and then ask “what alterations do I need?” They get all sorts of responses of varying quality. Some responses are astoundingly technical I recall Darren Beamen drawing a pattern and posting it once. This is all good natured and well-intended, but it also seems like an invitation to disaster. In my opinion, we all need to find ourselves the best tailors we can, and then trust in their skills. They don’t need us to tell them to change the shoulder line or open the armhole or move a side seam. They need us to simply say what we do or don’t like about a garment’s comfort or appearance. They can figure out how to make it right. In other words, our job is tell them what we want and their job, for which they are far better suited then we, is to execute our desire using their skill rather than our directions.

In my case, I was fortunate that Raphael knows his trade far better than me and is not shy about telling me what he thinks. A lesser tailor, or one who did not understand that I valued his advice, might have just done what I asked. My trousers would have been shorter and I would have gotten a longer rise, but that is not really what I wanted. It is just what I mistakenly thought needed to be done. I think the medical analogy is apt. In the future, if I have something in need of alteration, I will bring the tailor my symptoms, but leave the diagnosis and treatment to him.

Note: I realize that the web reaches a wide audience, many of whom do not have the access to skilled tailors available to those of us in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, London, Naples, Paris etc. (I am afraid to miss any). In that case, getting the most detailed instructions you can from the very knowledgeable participants on this site and others is a sensible alternative. But let us not forget that it is a compromise, at best.

[manton]

I agree that dictating technical things to a tailor, drawing patterns, etc. is almost always a mistake. (Though it depends on the tailor. Most do not take kindly to it. At least one I know rather enjoys working through such details with his customers.)

However, I disagree with the implication that knowledge on the customer's part is somehow dangerous, or at least should stop at a certain point. I have found that the more I know, the better my commissions turn out. I think it's all in the way you present your knowledge and make requests of the tailor. If you come off as though you think you know more about his business than he does, things will not turn out so well. If you think you are so knowledgable that your solution MUST be correct, even when he disagrees and suggests something else, things will not turn out so well. But knowing something about tailoring and pattern drafting helps the collaborative relationship. It also, at a minimum, helps you to understand what the tailor is talking about when he suggests fixes to various problems.

[dopey]

I don’t think I disagree with anything manton wrote. I certainly didn’t intend to imply that too much knowledge is ever a bad thing. My main point was that, when visiting our tailors, we should avoid fixating on the means rather than on the desired ends. Clearly, there are those among us whose knowledge of the craft of tailoring is sufficient for them to intelligently suggest to their tailors the means as well as the ends. I am not one of them, and I suspect I am not in the minority. Those readers who do have that knowledge know who they are and know enough not to pay attention to me.

[jcusey]

The other day, my car wouldn't start. I was subsequently able to jump-start it, so it's a pretty safe bet that the proximate cause of the problem was a dead battery. I would have been foolish to go to the mechanic and tell him to replace or recharge the battery, however. Why was the battery dead? Was it at the natural end of a long and productive life? Was it defective? Was the alternator not charging it up properly? Was there some other reason? I'm not enough of a motorhead to be able to tell, and I would just be wasting my money if I assumed that my naive diagnosis was correct instead of allowing an expert to use his expertise. It certainly would help me to know enough about cars to be able to gauge whether the explanation that the mechanic offered me was plausible or not, and a thorough knowledge of car repair could only improve the quality of work that I receive from the mechanic. However, he's the mechanic, not me. It's my job to describe the problem accurately and to keep him honest. It's his job to figure out the cause of the problem and to fix it.

[BirdofSydney]

I have a fortunate situation with my present alterations tailor where the proprietor will always offer to examine and pin my clothes personally, knowing that I am very particular, rather than delegating it to anyone else. She has a lifetime of dressmaking and tailoring experience, and the greatest degree of understanding of how cloth moves and how garments fit together. Her son, who is about my own age and understands my tastes well, will sit with us, and gently nudge her into ensuring that the shape and style, as well as the fit, is as perfect for me as possible. They tend to speak in Polish, which is no trouble, as I scarcely need to breathe a word the entire time.

Alas, I understand that such a situation is hard to replicate!

Best,

Eden

[Mark Seitelman]

Some of the best clothing experiences that I have had have been with Alan Bennett of Davies & Son on his visits to NYC.

You might give some direction as to fit (e.g., I like the pants looser), but you need say nothing further when he starts marking-up the suit. He knows what to do and how to do it.