I take the liberty of posting this missive in a private area of our online salon, since I have nothing nice to say, and Alden can delete the post without much fallout.
At the risk of being diagnosed with an Idee Fixe, I have smouldered all night with increasing rage at an incident that took place yesterday morning, when I and another of our brethren visited a London tailor whose infamy is now the stuff of folklore among Internet sartorial devotees. This credit to his ilk had my suit ready for its latest basted fitting (there have been a number of basted fittings; it never progresses) and I noted (among a host of other problems) that the trousers were very uncomfortable, binding at the seat and having pressure points in each leg. My own tentative comments were dismissed. The other member of our brethren noted the ill fit from an angle I couldn't see (there was no useful mirror handy) and was greeted with a curt "I'd like to 'ear wot sir 'as to say abaht it!"
It appears at this point that this will all end in tears and if I do receive the suit - which seems unlikely, that it quite simply will not fit. So I ask the following of all of you, who, with the wealth of experience of members of this forum, surely will have had similar experiences. Do I:
Give him chance after chance to rectify things? Dopey recently resolved a similar problem with Dege, but Dege are honorable men, who plainly were embarrassed at having issues with a longstanding customer. Our Villain, however, is quite a different animal who seems intent on taking money and foisting off a substandard product without anticipation of repeat business.
Get the basted suit from him and take it to one of the New York tailors to finish?
Tell him it's a kill and have American Express pursue him to get my money back?
Simply view the whole thing as a learning experience and enjoy the prospect of making niggling changes year after year without taking the suit or paying him for it?
Calm down and realize that if this is the worst thing that ever happens to me I'm damn lucky? Seriously, though, if there is some sort of protocol for dealing with a rogue tailor, I'd like to hear it.
Postscript: as the other member of our brethren and I were leaving, a young man and obvious first-time customer arrived with his girlfriend for his initial measuring. He was greeted warmly by our Huckster. I suppose anyone who brings a girlfriend with him to the tailor's deserves his grim fate, but I wonder whether we shirked our moral responsibility to tell him to run like hell?
Max
When It All Goes Pear Shaped
-
tteplitzmd
This unfortunate tale, can be replicated easily on several continents, and I can personally attest to having experienced variants on this scenario. What I have always found curious about bespoke gone bad, is that it does not seem to correlate with price.
It seems one can have the same bad outcome at a high or middling price.
My second thought is, the willingness of a tailor to work on the goods to the customer's satisfaction, is primarily a function of 1) the merchant's (sic) need for business and 2) the merchant's unspoken perception of whether this or that particular customer is in it for the long term (repeat business).
Point (2) is also affected by the amount of work the merchant/tailor is willing to put into the 'sale.' If a customer is particularly demanding (not pejoratively meant), it may be too much work for the tailor, in his own estimation.
I have written before that bespoke is ultimately a "commercial transcation" no matter how much shmoozing, foreplay, and 'tales of olde England' are involved. I think that gentlemen who really know what they want suffer the worst fate. A more passive easily dazzled customer endures less angst.
I think that all you really can do is try to cut your losses, move on, and view bespoke as an evolving project. Each finished piece maybe a bit closer to the expectation, but we are really living in an era of diminished expectations.
Terry A. Teplitz
It seems one can have the same bad outcome at a high or middling price.
My second thought is, the willingness of a tailor to work on the goods to the customer's satisfaction, is primarily a function of 1) the merchant's (sic) need for business and 2) the merchant's unspoken perception of whether this or that particular customer is in it for the long term (repeat business).
Point (2) is also affected by the amount of work the merchant/tailor is willing to put into the 'sale.' If a customer is particularly demanding (not pejoratively meant), it may be too much work for the tailor, in his own estimation.
I have written before that bespoke is ultimately a "commercial transcation" no matter how much shmoozing, foreplay, and 'tales of olde England' are involved. I think that gentlemen who really know what they want suffer the worst fate. A more passive easily dazzled customer endures less angst.
I think that all you really can do is try to cut your losses, move on, and view bespoke as an evolving project. Each finished piece maybe a bit closer to the expectation, but we are really living in an era of diminished expectations.
Terry A. Teplitz
You are right. If these are the biggest problems we have, then we are doing ok.
All joking aside -- I don't mean to make light -- I hope we get some interesting answers to your questions about what should be done and who should bear the cost.
My way of dealing with this problem has some obvious benefits and problems. I cut my losses and move on to another tailor under the theory that if the problem has not been solved by now (several fittings, transatlantic flights, and talking with those whom I trust on this subject) then there is no more use in trying. We tried. It did not work out. Move the problem to the loss side of the ledger and have done with it.
Your post also asks what we should do proactively – the guy walking in with his girlfriend. If I’m asked, then I give my opinion with a tempered amount of editorial. But what about my money? It is certainly legitimate, but I have a slightly differently question. I ask, “what is going to take to fix the problem, and is it worth it?” Some will find little solace in the idea that eventually the marketplace will take care of it, but I don’t have the time to stay mired.
I’m very interested in knowing the tailors have to say about these types of problems? Maybe the artisan and the client are incompatible for any number of reasons.
If on the other hand, the client’s concerns are reasonable, when does the artisan say let’s start over from scratch and see if we can’t get it right. (Query, what should be done if it is the customer’s own goods?) Or when does the artisan say let me refund your money there is nothing I can do for you. Then the client can try Mr. XYZ up the street and see if that works.
***
This analysis is distinct from my opinion about what should be done from the storefronts and boutiques in department stores in New York that hold themselves out as bespoke (often the term custom is used) tailors. These charlatans are really doing made-to-measure from a third party factory in Brooklyn, Long Island City, the garment district, Lexington Avenue, or upstate New York. These people are committing fraud and deserve lots of scorn and obloquy.
All joking aside -- I don't mean to make light -- I hope we get some interesting answers to your questions about what should be done and who should bear the cost.
My way of dealing with this problem has some obvious benefits and problems. I cut my losses and move on to another tailor under the theory that if the problem has not been solved by now (several fittings, transatlantic flights, and talking with those whom I trust on this subject) then there is no more use in trying. We tried. It did not work out. Move the problem to the loss side of the ledger and have done with it.
Your post also asks what we should do proactively – the guy walking in with his girlfriend. If I’m asked, then I give my opinion with a tempered amount of editorial. But what about my money? It is certainly legitimate, but I have a slightly differently question. I ask, “what is going to take to fix the problem, and is it worth it?” Some will find little solace in the idea that eventually the marketplace will take care of it, but I don’t have the time to stay mired.
I’m very interested in knowing the tailors have to say about these types of problems? Maybe the artisan and the client are incompatible for any number of reasons.
If on the other hand, the client’s concerns are reasonable, when does the artisan say let’s start over from scratch and see if we can’t get it right. (Query, what should be done if it is the customer’s own goods?) Or when does the artisan say let me refund your money there is nothing I can do for you. Then the client can try Mr. XYZ up the street and see if that works.
***
This analysis is distinct from my opinion about what should be done from the storefronts and boutiques in department stores in New York that hold themselves out as bespoke (often the term custom is used) tailors. These charlatans are really doing made-to-measure from a third party factory in Brooklyn, Long Island City, the garment district, Lexington Avenue, or upstate New York. These people are committing fraud and deserve lots of scorn and obloquy.
I'm really sorry you had to run into these issues. I had similar problems with my current tailor, however he was intent on doing things right and even recut a whole new jacket for me at cost to himself. That's the sort of integrity I admire.
That is a truely sad case Collarmelton 
. I am fortunate that the artisans I have worked with have corrected any flaws that I thought were wrong, with nary a complaint.
I can only suggest that you contact Amex an try to recover your money. Since you mentioned that you have had multiple basted fittings with no progress and the tailor seems to have some difficulty in fixing the flaws. If the cloth is one you provided, you should also take it back and bring it to a more reputable artisan who may be able to salvage something from the wreck you describe.
. I am fortunate that the artisans I have worked with have corrected any flaws that I thought were wrong, with nary a complaint.I can only suggest that you contact Amex an try to recover your money. Since you mentioned that you have had multiple basted fittings with no progress and the tailor seems to have some difficulty in fixing the flaws. If the cloth is one you provided, you should also take it back and bring it to a more reputable artisan who may be able to salvage something from the wreck you describe.
Dear Sir,
What I look for from any artisan is a constant and unswerving demonstration of “good faith.” If there is not a good faith effort being made, your course of action should be manifest and clear. Only you can characterize the experience as having demonstrated good faith or not.
Good faith is a two way street. Even the best artisans make mistakes or misunderstand our wishes. The first few fittings and experiences can be challenging. A certain amount of leeway is accorded reciprocally in the early days of any relationship. But if the trust is broken, it is near impossible to repair, especially if one party is acting in obvious bad faith.
There are plenty of talented, honest tailors available in the world today. The work undertaken in thelondonlounge “Certified Artisans Program” is intended to make these artisans known to the discerning clientele of our membership.
You are right to bring this matter up in the member’s section and you are right to want to inform others of your experience.
The situation you recount is very unusual and, frankly, very rare. Any artisan who would behave in the way you have described does a great disservice to the name and reputation of Savile Row and to custom tailoring in general. There is enough of a body of evidence out now from a variety of credible sources who all reach the same conclusion.
What I look for from any artisan is a constant and unswerving demonstration of “good faith.” If there is not a good faith effort being made, your course of action should be manifest and clear. Only you can characterize the experience as having demonstrated good faith or not.
Good faith is a two way street. Even the best artisans make mistakes or misunderstand our wishes. The first few fittings and experiences can be challenging. A certain amount of leeway is accorded reciprocally in the early days of any relationship. But if the trust is broken, it is near impossible to repair, especially if one party is acting in obvious bad faith.
There are plenty of talented, honest tailors available in the world today. The work undertaken in thelondonlounge “Certified Artisans Program” is intended to make these artisans known to the discerning clientele of our membership.
You are right to bring this matter up in the member’s section and you are right to want to inform others of your experience.
The situation you recount is very unusual and, frankly, very rare. Any artisan who would behave in the way you have described does a great disservice to the name and reputation of Savile Row and to custom tailoring in general. There is enough of a body of evidence out now from a variety of credible sources who all reach the same conclusion.
-
- Information
-
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests