The London Lounge

Good morning all,

The following is a slightly edited version of an exchange of posts I had with T4phage on the Continental Europe forum. Michael suggested I post it here as some may find it interesting. I havn't copied T4phages questions, as they are his to post or not, however, he basically asked who I chose for my shoes and some details on the styling.
I hope it isn't too long.
Rob

I went with John Cornforth in Harrogate (UK), as it is not too far from where my parents live, and of course he is not too expensive. Unfortunately EG don't come to Germany, otherwise I would almost certainly have gone with Tony.

I haven't had a fitting yet as he has a 12 month waiting list at the moment, but the first try on should be ready for the summer.
My first order is a simple black captoe oxford. Fairly unadventurous, but there is a reason. I want to use this first pair to get the fit right and to see how the toe shape works. As everyday “office shoes” they will get much more intensive wear than a more exotic choice (and I will be less upset if they don’t come out quite as I envisage), so I will be able to assess the fit and wear characteristics quicker and better.

He has me pencilled in for a second pair in the Autumn. I plan to go for a pair of light/mid tan bal-boots, maybe with button or a side fastening and possibly contrasting uppers. So many difficult decisions to make
All the best


Cornforths site is here:-
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/tumblehome
Warning, the photos are not very good: the shoes are much better "live".

I think his waiting list has something to do with the fact that in the north of England there are very few bespoke shoemakers, and the London based ones don't tend to look further north than Wolverhampton, and only then when they have to buy leather . I don't tend to visit London very often myself. My family is in the north of England and my wife is French, so a lot of Holiday time is taken up visiting relatives and the remainder we tend to go places we havn't visited so often in the past.

The examples John had in his workshop were very nice, so I do have high expectations of his workmanship, he is also a very nice chap to deal with.

I have ordered a slightly square toe as I think it should be the easiest to get looking good on my feet, and still be a versatile enough last to use for several styles of shoe. I do like chisel toes, but I find them rather particular, if you understand what I mean, not quite so versatile (and I suspect more difficult to get looking really good). Also my feet are very wide at the ball, narrow at the heel and have quite long toes and I can't help thinking that a chisel toe would tend to look a bit like a sawn of pyramid on me, not really the elegant impression I wanted. Anyway, I am sure that I will want to make small adjustments to the toe to perfect it for the second pair.

Speaking of the second pair, yes, I did want to go for something a bit unusual for this. I always liked ankle boots and have tended to wear chukka boots a lot over the last 10/15 years. I find button boots very elegant, but also quite like the idea of the side fastening on the Bertl boots in the Vass book, although I find those a bit "agricutural" so I'm trying to work out a way of getting it to look a bit more elegant. We'll see what I come up with. The button boots Tony G. posted were very nice, but I would be a bit worried about keeping white felt clean (particularly while polishing black leather), but I could imagine mixture of brown, like on the EG Falkirk, could be very nice. I am lucky enough to work in a very international environment, with a wide mixture of styles of dress, so I reckon could wear something like this without causing too much comment, certainly less than I would in monoculture, where everyone tends to wear the same.

Anyway, hope I haven't blathered on too much, its not often I get to talk (or write) at length on shoes.

All the best
Rob

Excellent post Rob! You answered all of my questions.

As for the chisel, I believe that a talented lastmaker can make a chisel to suit your foot without making it too long, or looking like a "lopped pyramid"! Have you discussed your concerns regarding such a toe with your shoemaker?

Regards,
Jan

Morning Jan,
I haven't specifically discussed a chisel toe with him, as the slightly square was the one I wanted to go with at first. I did discuss toe shapes in general and of course he said it would be no problem for him to make other shapes later.
My worry, quite possibly unfounded, stems I think from reading discussions on this and the Ask Andy boards. They have sometimes given the impression that the chisel toe is difficult to get really good. Indeed, I remember reading once, a post from I think Bengal-Stripe, to the effect that George Cleverley, the acknowldged master of the chiesl, used to design his lasts to force the little toe to sit over the next one in order to create a more elegant line, not something I would want to experience in my own shoes. Actually, when I think of it, it would be interesting to hear Tony G's thoughts on creating chiesel toes. Tony! If you read this your thoughts would be much appreciated.
All the best
Rob

Oh dear God no!.... If that was the original intention of the chisel toe, I would never have gone for it... But honestly, I have no problems whatsoever regarding small toe comfort on my chisel toed shoes... and I consider my feet quite wide, especially at the toes!

My Cleverleys have plenty of room to wiggle my toes.

All right, I’ve heard that story about George Cleverley and the piggyback riding little toe from two independent sources, but that does not necessarily make it the truth. It might be just a long lasting urban myth, the “Grassy Knoll” of the shoe trade.

I do not make any claims for the truth of this story, neither do I make claims about JFK, the moon landing, Diana’s death or Ms Faithfull and Mars bars. (But it’s the same with all urban myths, if it’s not true, it could well be true.)

Rolf

P.S. What's the "Continental Europe" forum? I can't find it.

Oh dear, careless talk costs …..

Bengal-Stripe, I hope I haven't offended you!

To try and clarify a little. From the many shoe discussions on various fora, I have got the, quite possibly mistaken, impression that a good (i.e. elegant or sleek looking) chisel toe may be difficult to create for a wide foot. Clearly every shoemaker should be able to create a chisel toe, but some will of course produce a better looking one than others. The only reason I quoted the Cleverley story was simply because, for me at least, it illustrates the point very nicely. I wasn't trying to put words into anyone's mouth. Personally I strongly suspect the story is an urban myth. I can't imagine a bespoke shoemaker getting much repeat custom for shoes which force the toes into un-natural and certainly uncomfortable positions, but as said, it does suggest that it isn't the easiest of styles to get right.

This is just a part of the reason why I did not chose a chisel for my first pair. I am sure at some point in the future I will get some, but one thing at a time. For my first experience of commissioning bespoke I wanted to try something which I think is more straightforward. I also want to see how the toe which I have, together with John, sketched out based on the outline of my foot, will translate into 3 dimensions.

All the best

Rob

Originally posted by Hesketh:

have got the, quite possibly mistaken, impression that a good (i.e. elegant or sleek looking) chisel toe may be difficult to create for a wide foot.

Don't worry Rob, I got the same impression when I first went to Cleverley and was admiring the various chiseltoe displays that they had.... I timidly enquired of Mr. Glasgow if such a toe was possible for my 'frogfoot' "of course" was his reply. I've been in love with the shape ever since.

Hesketh wrote:I have got the, quite possibly mistaken, impression that a good (i.e. elegant or sleek looking) chisel toe may be difficult to create for a wide foot.

I was recently regrouping with Mr. Glasgow of Cleverley, and he suggested exactly this point with reference to my feet. Their shoes are beatifully proportioned for my lower half, but the toe is not the most typical chisel. For that, they would have to be longer and at 11.5E, my feet are plenty long already.

I have some very close fitting shoes(my feet are actually smaller then they were 15 years ago)and George Glasgow once said to me-"well, you're not going to going to go mountain climbing in them, are you?"