Separate Collars?

[Mark Seitelman]

I have been toying with the idea of having some dress shirts made with separate collars.

I am interested in our fellow members' opinions and ideas.

The idea of separate collars intrigues me for a couple of reasons. First, I am very partial to the "old ways" and the "look" of the golden age of dress in the 1920's to 1940's. Modern comfort (such as lightweight cloths) cannot duplicate the "look" of the 1930's, therefore, my suitsare all heavy. Second, it seems like a neat way to diversify a shirt in that with one shirt you can get different looks, such as soft self-collar, a firm white collar, a tab collar, and round collar.

Furthermore, I am interested in a very firm collar, but I am not interested in a cardboard-like collar. E.g., the author of www.bownsbespoke.com favors a very stiff collar that has a shine. I am not seeking to wear a wing collar and look like Oliver Hardy.

Additionally, I am not interested in doing this if I have to ship my dirty collars to the only laundry left in the western world which launders separate collars. In other words, I have to be able to launder them locally.

My shirtmaker says that we can acheive the firm effect by fusing the collar and using a very firm interlining.

Have any of you gentlemen tired separate collars? Max (a/k/a Collarmelton) wore them in public school, and he has had his fill. A friend used to buy them at New & Lingwood, but he stopped doing so because he said that they were very uncomfortable.

Is this idea folly?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

Mark Seitelman

[Collarmelton]

Mark:

You might consider getting an evening shirt with a proper wing collar, which looks very smart if done right, as it would be high enough to frame the face properly. Since a wing collar is open in the front, you won’t have quite the same stud-riding-on-the-Adam’s-apple effect that you would with a separate day collar. Hallak can clean them for you (at $3.40 a pop). If you choose to go this route, avoid the separate wing collar (as well as everything else) currently on offer at Brooks Brothers – it’s not high enough. Also avoid London suppliers of barrister’s requisites (there are a number of them clustered around the Inns), who sell collars for court use, as these are also a bit on the low side. Get one from Budd or New & Lingwood.

[dopey]

I had a tiff separate wing collar made for me by Avery Lucas during the brief period when he did bespoke shirts under his own name. It has a beautiful curve cut along the top line. It was made to go with a ridiculously boldly striped dress shirt in white, blue and gray BUT, with stiff white pique bib and cuffs. The shirt looks completely normal as long as my coat stays on. If the evening stays buttoned-up, so do I. If the evening loosens up, so can I. Manton is free to cringe, nonetheless.

He also made an ordinary shirt for me with separate collars - one in the same fabric and one in an off white, as the shirt was striped with a cream base. I convinced myself it would be good for travel. Perhaps it was. I haven’t seen it in a while and had forgotten I had it until this thread appeared. Maybe I left it on a trip. I found it more trouble than it was worth and never did figure out a good system for storing the collars. I tried keeping them with my socks or threading the buttonholes through the shirt hanger to keep them with the shirt. Nothing worked and I have no idea where either the shirt or the collars are.

If you try this Mark, start with a formal shirt or be prepared to add more detail management to your life.

[RWS]

Dear Mark,

I'd agree with Max and Dov: detachable collars are ideal for evening -- or other formal -- dress, but rather a bother for ordinary daily wear. That said, the look can be very dapper, and sorting and storing detachable collars is easily managed with an appropriate collar box. It's not so easy to resist the drift toward detachable cuffs and stiff bib as well, however; and it's difficult to find competent laundries (I've never tried Hallek).

Yours,

Robb

[Trilby]

I also agree with what has been said above. I wear detachable collars with formal clothes and very occasionally wear them with an ordinary suit. You really can't beat the way they look with formal wear, but they are less comfortable than a normal shirt collar and are a bit awkward to put on. Also, it costs almost as much to launder the collar in London as to buy a new one.

Unlike Collarmelton, I would recommend going to the stores that cater to barristers if you want an introduction to detachable collars. Because these are everyday wear for barristers (who wear a wing collar and collar tabs for court), those stores carry a wide range of RTW shirts with detachable collars. These include a variety of patterned shirts - stripes and checks - which typically come with a couple of separate soft collars made of matching cloth. You can then buy the white collars separately, which come in a variety of shapes and styles. You can also sometimes get them in varying degrees of stiffness (from ordinary soft cotton up to the ultra-stiff ones with a shiny finish).

I would recommend checking out Ede & Ravenscroft on Chancery Lane (their store at the bottom of Savile Row does not have as large a selection). There are a few other stores catering to barristers in the same area, but their quality is not as good and the selection not as large.

[Mark Seitelman]

I thank you gentlemen for your comments.

I discussed the issue with my shirtmaker. He advised against separate collars for a number of reasons. But we're making one shirt as an experiment.

[RWS]

Dear Mark,

I'd be interested in knowing why your shirtmaker (is he American? where was he trained?) was loath to make shirts with detachable collars: aesthetic reasons, or problems with construction, or?

Yours,

Robb

[Mark Seitelman]

My shirtmaker feels that it would not be practical and would not be comfortable.

We're making one as an experiement. I think that one as an experiment is a good idea.

My shirtmaker is British and has made and sold separate collars when he worked at Nutters (bespoke) and Cole's (RTW).

[Trilby]

My shirtmaker feels that it would not be practical and would not be comfortable.

He is right. In the modern world, detachable collars are not practical. The collars, and the collar studs that go with them, are a real throwback to older times. In wearing them, you are making a conscious decision to wear something that is rather archaic. They are also less comfortable than modern collars.

Detachable collars are absolutely the way to go for formal wear, but they really are not ideal for wearing normally. When I wear them, I feel that I am giving modernity a sharp poke in the eye.