The London Lounge

A number of reputable bespoke tailors offer this option.
You know the names better than I do.
Some: Steed, Huntsman, Sexton, Gieves....
Others?

For some of us, MTM, rather than bespoke, might be a good option.

It’s worth taking a look at MTM.

I’ll tell you why, IMO:

1. Cost.
MTM is probably one third the cost of bespoke when all is said and done.

I don’t mind saving that money. MTM is a good value.

With the savings, I can buy a pair of shoes and a shirt and tie and a Swatch.

Or better yet, two more suits.

2. Time.
Yes, MTM delivery is about 6-9 weeks rather than 6-9 months for bespoke.

I like that. I don’t have the patience anymore for 3 or more fittings and the associated travel.

Just please deliver my suit. On time. On spec. Consistently. Send it in a plain brown box to my home. Thank you.

3. Cloth.
I get all the same choice of cloth selection as in bespoke. Right there, we have half the advantage of bespoke IMO. Half. Cloth choice.

4. Bespoke? Why do I need bespoke?

I don’t.

No significant physical fit issues.
No special personal design requirements.
Not wedded to hand work.
Am just another schlepper here.
An 80% percenter: Getting pretty close to bespoke fit and look and panache is good enough for me.

5. DNA.

All things being equal, I choose a tailor based on the silhouette he designs.

Do I want a Cifonelli or Sexton or Sciamat silhouette?
All fine bespoke tailors at the top of their game, I’m sure.
But no.

Silhouette rules. It’s where it’s at for me. Make me look fabulous, baby.
Fulfill my dreams however illusory my self image.
I don’t care much about your buttonholes. Sorry.
Just make my suit sing on my morning walks on the Croisette.

A reputable bespoke tailor will offer an MTM option which reflects his core DNA - a true reflection of his core bespoke silhouette, developed over years.

Through experience, I know that I have nothing to add to that DNA.

Best leave matters well enough alone.

6. The MTM process.

Here I am guessing, correct me where I am wrong, but the MTM character and process is roughly as follow:
- 20-30 measurements of my well toned body taken by a human
- cloth selected by me
- cloth and measurements sent to a sterile factory in Italy , entered anonymously into a computer where everything will be stored forever.
-A perfect machine will cut the 12 pieces of fabulous cloth to spec, within 3 mm of the order. Hey!! Close enough.
-A beautiful female in Italy will then sew the 12 pieces of machine cut cloth together on a fabulous sewing machine. I will not know her name. Nor be able to take a picture with her and post it on my Instagram feed.
-Every stitch will be machine made. Nobody will know me or see me.
Nobody gives a shit. No memories. No connection.
But the stitching on my lapels and buttonholes and boutonnière will beat yours!!

I may be wrong. But I might be right.

7. When All is Said and Done.

This for a later post.....

Goodnight.

I have had MTM made by Steed and Merrion. Usually with Lesser or Finmeresco. Upgrade includes hand buttonholes. Perfect fit, and great value for money.

NO!



Sorry, but the only situation where I see MTM useful is for a young person who has no money and really needs a suit now, only for an interim period till one gathers enough money for bespoke. And this means 1 MTM suit. Not a wardrobe of several MTM suits, because this would mean enough money for a bespoke.

As Voxsartoria once wrote:
"Rule 7. “I’m a good fit in ready-to-wear” is just another way of saying that you have a crappy job."
http://www.voxsartoria.com/post/7821521 ... -essential

Just substitute “I’m a good fit in ready-to-wear” with "I am satisfied with MTM".

Tailors are more than happy to sell MTM. Because they don't get rich with bespoke. Bespoke is hard work and no scaling.
MTM is outsourced work and can be scaled. You can sell 100, you can sell 1000, you can sell 10 000 MTM suits and finally feel some real cash flow.
I recently wrote to the bespoke shoemaker Norman Vilalta. And he tried to steer me towards his RTW line of shoes. And I was thinking "Dude, I don't want your RTW shoes. I asked for the bespoke service." But bespoke means much more work for him than RTW.

As for the last post . . .

There are all ranges of MTM from the machine-made, engineered and fused suit made by mysuit.com made in Mexico or Asia to the MTM Oxxford, Brioni, and Kiton which are hand-cut and hand-made in factories which are more like workshops.

There are some great dressers who wear MTM but do not advertise it. I am thinking of a couple of dandies who buy their clothes MTM from a bespoke tailor.

There are some very rich and very powerful men who are not interested in the bespoke route who look just fine. I'm thinking of a billionaire former mayor who switched his custom from a leading Madison Avenue clothier to Martin Greenfield's factory. Even billionaires like to save money.

Cheers.

Dear Hristo

Of around 40 suits, trousers and odd jackets in my wardrobe, maybe 6 are made to measure. The rest are bespoke.

Each have their own purpose, which I have chosen at the time of their making.

Pride of place goes to my late father's dinner suit, made by Hawkes and Co for his 21st birthday in 1946, and which I have had altered to fit me perfectly today. A better make in every respect is a MTM by a "Row" name made in 2014.

You choose. I know where I'd put my money.

aston wrote:Dear Hristo

Of around 40 suits, trousers and odd jackets in my wardrobe, maybe 6 are made to measure. The rest are bespoke.

Each have their own purpose, which I have chosen at the time of their making.

Pride of place goes to my late father's dinner suit, made by Hawkes and Co for his 21st birthday in 1946, and which I have had altered to fit me perfectly today. A better make in every respect is a MTM by a "Row" name made in 2014.

You choose. I know where I'd put my money.

For clarity, are you saying that the MTM is better than the Hawkes dinner suit or better than your other bespoke suits? Thanks!

This is what we've come to , Michael.

Simply put, I have some bespoke which does not justify being around three times the cost of some MTM. And some which does.

I tried once an mtm suit many years ago, at the beginning, to have a comparison to my very first bespoke commission (a navy coat, Sb 3 roll 2, which I still wear after 20 years). The mtm was very good as mtm go. The problem is the taylor I chose was (IS) an artist, and it was obvious where the fun, beauty, sexiness is.
You can’t compare the two once you found a real taylor. And I was very happy to wait a little while in order to afford the next order.
The first coat, the first suit, first odd coat: I can remember very vividly.

Mark Seitelman wrote:As for the last post . . .

There are all ranges of MTM from the machine-made, engineered and fused suit made by mysuit.com made in Mexico or Asia to the MTM Oxxford, Brioni, and Kiton which are hand-cut and hand-made in factories which are more like workshops.

There are some great dressers who wear MTM but do not advertise it. I am thinking of a couple of dandies who buy their clothes MTM from a bespoke tailor.

There are some very rich and very powerful men who are not interested in the bespoke route who look just fine. I'm thinking of a billionaire former mayor who switched his custom from a leading Madison Avenue clothier to Martin Greenfield's factory. Even billionaires like to save money.

Cheers.

Hi Mark,

this is not an argument, because:
- I am not talking about the make. Yes, there are MTM with different quality and I am sure, that some MTM can be more consistent in quality than some bespoke tailors.
- I don't care who wears what. Of course there are plenty of rich and powerful people who wear very expensive and very bad clothes. I don't follow the sartorial steps of billionaires former mayors.

I am 28 and I currently don't even have a suit.
I had a MTM zegna suit which I sold on eBay because I hated the low armholes which restricted my movements.
Then I had a bespoke Solito suit, which I wore around 250-300 times (maybe even more) till the trousers got holes from the wear and the jacket started looking very wasted and shiny in some areas (it is a very thin fabric - 200g). Now I use the jacket for driving.
I am currently waiting for my new bespoke suit from a very young and talented Neapolitan tailor which will be made using the LL navy Brisa and in the meanwhile I wear odd jackets and odd trousers.

Even though I cannot afford a large wardrobe and even though I need a new suit fast, I don't even think about buying a MTM. I prefer a small wardrobe crafted for me according to my needs and specifications than a large wardrobe of MTM garments.

Hristo,

You have stated a sound case as to why MTM doesn't work for you.

It's all a question of your income and lifestyle and "wants" and what you are willing to spend.

The original poster set forth a good argument for MTM. You set forth a good argument for bespoke.

Hi Mark,

yes. The existence if MTM points a demand in this area, so there are a lot of customers that choose MTM and in their mind MTM is the most sound option for them and their situation. People are not brainless. For sure they have their logical arguments.
But if a friend comes to me asks for advice on a long term strategy about their wardrobe, I will not recommend MTM.
I would recommend MTM only for urgent cases like - "I need to attend a wedding in 2 months, please help" or "I don't have any suit and will start my first job in 2 months, please help".

Best regard
Hristo

old henry wrote:This is what we've come to , Michael.

Indeed

HristoStefanov wrote: * * * I would recommend MTM only for urgent cases like - "I need to attend a wedding in 2 months, please help" or "I don't have any suit and will start my first job in 2 months, please help". * * *

For such young men, I would recommend good RTW from a good clothier.

They need clothes, and they need them in a hurry. The fellow starting a job will need minimally two suits, navy and grey, and he will need more if he has to be dressed everyday.

After one has the basics covered, then one should dabble in MTM and bespoke. IMHO.

Of course this matter shouldn’t become a partisan issue, but it is worthwhile visiting the subject of MTM, particularly as very reputable bespoke tailors, some of whom post here on LL, offer MTM in their line up.

Steed calls it “semi bespoke”. Huntsman calls it “bespoke to measure”.
It is worth visiting their sites to listen to what they have to say.

Let’s stick with “MTM” here.

I’ve been wearing a Huntsman MTM sports coat for the last few days which I had made quite a few years back, commissioned in their London store, just to be able to ask myself if I am on the right track here with the question I ask myself: is MTM a reasonable alternative to bespoke, or a stark and disheartening compromise.

The answer came back clearly, yes, indeed, MTM, gives me all of the satisfaction and pleasure of bespoke...

...and when well done, MTM is a better choice for me than bespoke.

I am sitting here right now, writing here, in the H coat and couldn’t be happier or more comfortable wearing this coat. So that is ultimately what is important. Wouldn’t you agree?

Moreover, I find myself, in practice , reaching for my other MTM suits much more regularly than anything bespoke.

So why?

To answer, first, I need to shake off the shibboleths, conventional wisdom and group think which makes it all too easy to fall prey to and so, confine one’s thinking.

And while I’m at it, I’ll try to throw off the bespoke conceits, myths, the merchandising, the stag horns, burning fireplace, and leather sofas, liquor bar, which bespoke firms use to sell to me. And perhaps to you.

Add to that, the tony addresses, the heritage, the illustrious and celebrated clients, the resurrected paper patterns of Fred Astaire and Cary Grant and Agnelli displayed in showroom windows , the references to mythical cutters Colin Hammick and Frederick Scholte, ....well,

...throw it all out and burn it.

That era of dressers and tailors is over.

So what is left ?

Well, don’t you know !?.....read the Nets, the new men’s magazines, the latest breathless blogs, posts and photos. Step up your game to..... yes, bespoke. Circa: now. Yeah, baby.

The bigger bespoke firms, and indeed internet bloggers and various and sundry paid influencers, are rapidly adapting all of the calculated techniques of the larger fashion brands to reel us in - the few, the discerning, the bespoke client.

(And BTW folks, who knew, but LL, even with its minuscule readership, is considered an influencer and persuader of sorts in the estimable opinion of Hugo Jacomet as noted in his book -The Parisian Gentleman. This coffee table size, luciously illustrated, book, well worth buying, as well as his latest book: The Italian Gentlemen. Tremendous resources, both. )

Well, let’s start anew and with a fresh eye.

And there’s no better place than to Ask Alden: as Alden reminds us here incessantly, LL is about style and he couldn’t give a damn about clothes. And I agree. That’s a good starting point.

Let’s keep our eye on the ball. And our minds open. Open to MTM. And beyond the horizon to...Style.


Yet, I think that we, all of us statistically minded engineers, need to next consider the value of hand stitching, this, the principle difference between bespoke and MTM.

But first, time for another cocktail friends and then some bird watching !