The London Lounge

davidhuh wrote:

Gentlemen,

a fellow member with a very good eye just wrote this to me:

I noticed something I had not seen before, which is that the pattern of the tweed on the facings of the jacket is inverted from the pattern on the body. Meaning, on the body of the jacket, the white horizontal stripe is below the rust stripe and on the facings the white stripe is above the rust stripe. As the facings are usually a separate piece, I was wondering: was this intentional or was it an error on the part of your tailor?

From my side, there was no such intention. But honestly, I didn't even notice. I went to my closet and looked for examples. The same tailor has cut a second coat from the same cloth where he didn't do this.
But looking very closely at both coats, there is a pattern matching limitation anyway. We have a triple window pane with four colours. The middle stripe is either burgundy or green; the others are rust and light blue (may look white on the picture). So when you look at the collar and the lapel: They cannot match on both sides. The center of one collar matches with the back piece with one coat, but not with the other. Normally, this should match, but there are exceptions

Now the question is how serious is the issue with the facings? Is it a mistake, a caprice? The pattern on both facings must run the same way - but is it a mistake if it is inverted with the coat body? Frank, what is your opinion?

My amateurish opinion: I'm not too obsessed with pattern matching, a coat is no jigsaw puzzle. My focus is on overall fit, comfort and harmony which should result in putting me in the best possible light, full stop.

Are there any other views out here?

Cheers, David

Please do not let thoughts about this creeping in: it's a beautiful suit made for you.
I remember reading (through Thomas Mahon blog a few years ago if I'm not mistaken) that a famous cutter at A&S once answered to whom questioned about pattern matching: "Go buy one off the rack, then" or something similar.
Besides, the pattern is way more difficult to manipulare than a glen check (that has less limitations being symmetrical).
Saluti
M.

While matching up at the shoulder seam is indeed a fool's errand, there's no harm in trying to do the rest of the coat as correctly as possible.

Still, there is a shot of the Do'W in a suit like that where the English jacket maker and the US trouser maker chose different orientations for the check.

Art, not science.

The bigger problem arises where there is obviously no attempt at matching..............the it is not art, just sloppiness.

davidhuh wrote: Are there any other views out here?

When the collar is folded back, the pattern inverts itself and the light blue stripe appears under the darker stripe matching what you see in the back piece (and rest of the suit). There is a limitation in the matching, so the tailor had to choose. It would be interesting to know what your tailor says about it.
Myself wouldn't call it a mismatch, but even so, It's not uncommon amongst collectibles (stamps, watches, books, etc.) that the works of art with small mismatches like that are the most sought after and carry a premium
Your suit is an example of good taste and you wear it very well.

The lapel inversion is a mistake. There is no good reason to invert it. It was not an issue of the tailor picking between two options. It is an issue of the tailor not paying attention.
Whether it matters to you is a different question. For me, it is a sign of carelessness and would ask for it to be corrected.

Gentlemen,

many thanks for your feedback, much appreciated

to whom questioned about pattern matching: "Go buy one off the rack, then"

Right, this was on Thomas Mahon's blog, and the issue was about matching front and back of a striped suit on the shoulder. This is indeed not possible in bespoke.

Still, there is a shot of the Do'W in a suit like that where the English jacket maker and the US trouser maker chose different orientations for the check.

This one made me laugh, thank you Concordia. And what did the DoW do with it? He was wearing it gracefully
A nice example to follow. Perfection is boring.

Myself wouldn't call it a mismatch, but even so, It's not uncommon amongst collectibles (stamps, watches, books, etc.) that the works of art with small mismatches like that are the most sought after

Right Hector - we can safely say "you only get this in bespoke" - but I will ask him next time I see him

The lapel inversion is a mistake. There is no good reason to invert it. It was not an issue of the tailor picking between two options. It is an issue of the tailor not paying attention.
Whether it matters to you is a different question. For me, it is a sign of carelessness and would ask for it to be corrected.

Dear Brax, you sound a bit harsh to me. He might not have paid attention, correct, or he was short in cloth, may be, and could not cut it otherwise, he is an old man and I'm one of only two or three people he is still working for.

Anyway, this was a test cloth from may be six or seven years ago - which means there is no more cloth and nothing can be done. So I shall wear it with a big smile, and if anybody does notice, we have a conversation piece, as fashion people would call it

Cheers, David

That suit is spectacular David. I'm struggling to see an issue with the lapels - I think they look fine.

If the front of a coat were made of a single piece of cloth (as they possibly were in the distant past), then the facings would be the 'inside' of any pattern, and presumably certain weaves would invert a pattern on opposite sides of the cloth? (I'm open to an education on this point !). Could that explain it? If so then your tailor was clearly right to take that route.

I was amused to read above about stripe-matching on shoulders. I have a pinstripe suit with a less than subtle stripe. The joint at the top of the left lapel, with the collar piece, matches absolutely perfectly to the middle-most stripe in the lapel, but the collar piece then arrives at the top of the right lapel in an entirely random fashion having followed a proper line around my neck, pattern-spacing notwithstanding.

I have only once had this pointed out to me. The chap concerned went on to remark that he also saw that only one stripe on each shoulder met up, front-to-back. His suit, needless to say, matched at every seam.

I found that to be rather reassuring.

It looks good to me. I really have no idea what I'm talking about but I'd guess it's deliberate and is a function of how the pattern runs horizontally across the back of the coat, say back left to right, and how it runs horizontally across the front of the coat, say front left to right. And how the collar lines up with the pattern across the back of the coat and what happens to that collar pattern when it wraps around to the front. It's now on the "upside" on David's left front, for example, isn't it? Probably made the facings compatible with that collar on purpose.

davidhuh wrote: Perfection is boring.

Here's a good example of pattern matching on a bit complicated tartan. Jacket by Scholte in London, trousers by Harris in New York. Although created an ocean apart, the two pieces worn together have continuity of stripes. The absolute perfection at matching lapels and collar with the front could have been achieved by cutting and applying the cloth in a way that, when folded out, it stayed horizontally in both. Similar aim could have been achieved with the overlap of the DB. That would have camouflaged lapel, collar and overlap against the background, turned it into a more boring landscape, and kill the elegant flow of the jacket.

davidhuh wrote:

The lapel inversion is a mistake. There is no good reason to invert it. It was not an issue of the tailor picking between two options. It is an issue of the tailor not paying attention.
Whether it matters to you is a different question. For me, it is a sign of carelessness and would ask for it to be corrected.

Dear Brax, you sound a bit harsh to me. He might not have paid attention, correct, or he was short in cloth, may be, and could not cut it otherwise, he is an old man and I'm one of only two or three people he is still working for.

Anyway, this was a test cloth from may be six or seven years ago - which means there is no more cloth and nothing can be done. So I shall wear it with a big smile, and if anybody does notice, we have a conversation piece, as fashion people would call it

Cheers, David

I apologize for the tone. It was not my intention to come off as harsh. I make no judgment about your tailor's competence as I do not know him nor am I familiar with his work. What I can say is that he made a mistake on your jacket. I don't see how cutting inverted lapels could save on suiting. But regardless, you have a great attitude and are more tolerant than I am concerning mistakes. Wear your suit in good health and enjoy it.