The London Lounge

This coat was made by a very traditional Savile Row tailor with a military heritage. I have used this tailor, amongst others, for several years and I decided to ask for the house style undiluted. My feeling was that this soft cloth needed a little shape, and some underlying structure to help it keep its shape. I know some express delight at the idea of a coat that feels like a cardigan, but not me, I like to feel "gently gripped" by a coat . I think the shape has been achieved, although, interestingly, there is very little padding in either the chest or the shoulders (don't be fooled by my posture!). There is, however, quite a strong rope to the sleevehead and I am not sure if this works with this cloth. I am thinking of having it flattened, but then the roping is distinctive and removing it would make the shoulders look just like they do on millions of mass produced RTW. I'm torn - any views?

This got me thinking again about something that has been at the back of my mind for a while. Do certain cloths work better with a particular approach to tailoring? I could see that Drape, or "soft" tailoring, might work very well with something like a Fox LL flannel. But does a lighter cloth, 13oz or less, benefit from structure? I suspect that the answer is "it depends on the tailor", if they are good at what they do they will make good looking clothes, whichever system they adhere to.

Scot wrote:
I am thinking of having it flattened, but then the roping is distinctive and removing it would make the shoulders look just like they do on millions of mass produced RTW. I'm torn - any views?

Dear Scot,

my advice would be: do not touch your shoulders. It would be like ordering champagne and then use one of these terrible instruments to remove the bubbles. I would expect them to become a little flatter over time anyway.

Scot wrote:This got me thinking again about something that has been at the back of my mind for a while. Do certain cloths work better with a particular approach to tailoring? I could see that Drape, or "soft" tailoring, might work very well with something like a Fox LL flannel. But does a lighter cloth, 13oz or less, benefit from structure? I suspect that the answer is "it depends on the tailor", if they are good at what they do they will make good looking clothes, whichever system they adhere to.

In my opinion, all cloth that drapes well works especially well with soft tailoring. All LL cloth drapes extremely well
Some people, me included, like this style while others find it terrible (there are quite some discussions here on the LL). It is a matter of taste.

I see the beauty in more traditional tailoring as shown here in your picture - it is just not me or "my style".
Would a lighter cloth benefit from structure? If structure means more canvasing and more padding, then I would say no. If I select a lighter cloth, I do so to wear it in summer. I have made up four suits from the defunct Rangoon bunch with lightest possible canvas and least possible padding with excellent results. Adding structure means adding weight and making it warmer.

Cheers, David

As so often I agree with David. I'd just add the observation that we often value most the art that hides art (see much backing and forthing on the topic of sprezzatura in other threads). The tailor's skill is used to accentuate the positive and minimize the negative of a man's figuration, but if the armature is too visible we rate it less highly; it appears to try too hard to deceive and the deception shows. One part of the appeal of the "soft" cut is its understatement and assertion of "naturalness"--it's not far from the ethos, to paraphrase Ricci on Hackett, of "a man who hides his shoulders hides his self." As Scot rightly points out, the success of this style too depends on the skill of the tailor.

I mention this, since I too prefer some substance in a jacket, in order to transfer the principle to the question of sleevehead prominence, wadding, and "roping" as it relates to cloth choice. In my experience, it takes an extremely skillful tailor to cut a highly structured jacket, and especially a strongly roped sleevehead, that retains its composure out of a very light weight cloth, if a smooth, unpuckered sleevehead curve is desired. It's simply very difficult to keep the wadding, haircloth, or whatever structural components are used to support the arch of the sleevehead, from revealing their own shape through the lightweight cloth, especially after several wearings. I always think of the cloth-covered wings of early aircraft stretched over their wooden frames. It's not the wearer's shape but the engineered struts that we're seeing. Ricci's own prominent sleeveheads show the implications (and a less dramatic version is visible in Servillo's linen jackets in La Grande Belleza) if one wants the various advantages of a full sleevehead but eschews the structural support: a sleevehead that puckers and wrinkles with movement and advertises its minimal underpinnings. It can be pinched and squashed and pushed back up when the jacket comes on and off. Whether one sees this as a fault is a question partly of taste. Clearly Ricci doesn't. It seems to me to comport perfectly with the nature of linen. With a 7-oz tropical wool, perhaps not so much. A springy mohair blend might pull it off.

All this to say that a heavy military tunic serge or a tight thornproof tweed would seem the better cloths to use if you like the crisp version of this sleevehead line. That's the context in which they were developed. See the young fellow second from right among the Seafield estate staff, who has definite roping--but, as David points out, with some time it wears in perfectly nicely. I think the "never shoot in new tweeds" mandate will eventually take any hint of pretentiousness out of any sleevehead style as long as it's well cut so that the sleeve hangs properly. The same might not go for pagoda shoulder padding, but I'm prepared to be surprised.

davidhuh wrote:I would expect them to become a little flatter over time anyway.

The others have already noted the substance of the matter, so I'd just like to point that this above will probably be the case, so I would not despair over the sleevehead roping.