The London Lounge

If we take the Saville Row area - how much of the Bespoke suit or shirt is make on the tailors premises? You would assume all as its bespoke - but is it. When selecting a tailor its always a good idea to find out exactly what they do and whats done by other companies -the results are interesting - Whats your experience.

Why must everything be made on the premises, just because it's bespoke? There are some workers who work from home, others who have a table in one shop where they do work for others as well. If that bothers you, find someone who does everything himself.

Hi , I have no problemwith worker from the tailors if they work from home. What bothers me is when I pay for a London tailor and find that the item has been made in China. I understand this is a growing trend and one i dont like. If I want a Chinese suit - i can buy one there as i do a lot of work in Hong Kong and Shanghai - I just feel its just a trifle dishonest.

It's dishonest if they tell you that it's all made in London. However, the firms with Asian options tend to be quite candid about it, in my experience.

Kilgour used to have a deal with a factory in Shanghai for their entry-level bespoke. Their former head cutter is now at Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, where for less than half the price of their London-made suits you can get cutting and fitting in London, and sewing in India (by their own employees). No secret, as far as I can tell.

There may be less reputable places who try to conceal this activity, or sell factory-made RTW with a big SAVILE ROW label, but there's no point in smearing the whole tailoring industry.

Concordia wrote:It's dishonest if they tell you that it's all made in London. However, the firms with Asian options tend to be quite candid about it, in my experience.

Kilgour used to have a deal with a factory in Shanghai for their entry-level bespoke. Their former head cutter is now at Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, where for less than half the price of their London-made suits you can get cutting and fitting in London, and sewing in India (by their own employees). No secret, as far as I can tell.

There may be less reputable places who try to conceal this activity, or sell factory-made RTW with a big SAVILE ROW label, but there's no point in smearing the whole tailoring industry.

Perhaps I have been fortunate in my choice of tailor (and I have used three in the environs of the Row), but this has been absolutely my experience. There has never been anything but complete transparency about where the making would take place.

Why does it matter where basic machine work is carried out?

Surely you could simply ask them where their making is done? It's a pretty straightforward question, which would, I am sure, elicit an honest answer.

DFR wrote:Why does it matter where basic machine work is carried out?

From the marketing point of view it's very important.
Rich and young new Asian customers -groomed by Anderson & Sheppard for instance- seem to prefer their bespoke suits made by an English owned firm and exclusively in London premises.

hectorm wrote:

DFR wrote:Why does it matter where basic machine work is carried out?

From the marketing point of view it's very important.
Rich and young new Asian customers -groomed by Anderson & Sheppard for instance- seem to prefer their bespoke suits made by an English owned firm and exclusively in London premises.

But surely that is a triumph for form over substance?


What is important is fit and cut.

In my experience, it is not the nationality of the owner of the hands that effects quality... but rather.... the time they have spent to make a garment, the amount of garments those hands have made previously and the brain attached to that pair of hands. Not everyone who works on the row is British, after all! And when I sew something it has the label "Made in Belgium" not "made by a British person".

Whilst distance between manufacturing stages can lead to miscommunication, and so errors (a legitimate complaint) it is not always the case, especially in our modern world of direct communications. I have a friend working at a factory that does bespoke embroidery for european brands in india. The luxury, haute couture brands that use them do not do so for cost reasons (transport costs, VAT and the one at a time orders almost nullify the difference in this case, especially since the prices are still high.) They do it because the tradition of hand sewing and embroidery in India is very much alive and well and the results are better than production based in say, France, because their is such a scarcity of people with that skillset now. Aside from one studio, which is desperate to find young blood and used by everyone for haute couture week (to have the Made in France that the Chambre syndicale demands), and the royal school of needlework, I can't think of a single equally skilled atelier in Europe. (Which is terribly sad and goes to show that artisan crafts have been dying a sad death).

What *can* be criticised is:
-if tailors are not transparent about their production.

Dr T wrote:What bothers me is when I pay for a London tailor and find that the item has been made in China

-Unneccessary shipping wasting valuable resources. Waste of oil/carbon.
- So much young blood floating around that we could have trained to do this locally. (Then again, whose to say they are more deserving than a youth in another country?) over 950,000 youths in the UK in longterm unemployment. Many of whom are blocked out of the government touted apprenticeship schemes because they are 'overqualified', yet blocked from work because they have not got enough experience. Atelier's needing talent, talent existing, and this sad gulf between the two.
-If people are being taken advantage of/don't have a living wage.
-the loss of these skills in London

The point is: we do have this tendency to cling onto the idea that made in India or made in China is *inherently* always going to be poor quality when that simply isn't the case. (the various factories there produce garments from appalling to brilliant, and everything in between) There honestly isn't a difference (in terms of potential for miscommunication) between a tailor working from home or another atelier, and a tailor being in another country. I've seen huge errors in miscommunication between someone (Savile row and haute couture trained) sewing from their atelier on the south bank with a couture atelier in south ken, (not a quality issue, different understandings of the same concept that led to alarmingly different production, which led to the garment being remade completely) when the same atelier received things from foreign countries where there was no issue. The quality in both cases was exceptional.

While there are certain cases in which the quality is not transferrable (Hermes and it's legendary (so much so that i'm not even sure it exists) unique silk printing machinery that is the most detailed (I believe it has the most pigments) in the world....... (no-one knows how it was built and they certainly aren't going to let people take it apart to copy it)) they are few and far between.

A firm marketing itself partially on it's britishness and it's location on the row does have to answer to certain standards, and i do agree that what's designated and sold as a british suit should be made in Britain. But though we can debate the merits of irish/italian linen, scottish tweed, french and english wools.... I think that anyone who works with their hands would be insulted were you to judge them on their nationality rather than the merits of their work.

No idea where that came from. sorry for the addled nature of it.

Dr T has mentioned in another thread that his tailor is Benson and Clegg. I believe it is quite well known that Benson and Clegg have two "bespoke" options, one made entirely on the premises the other being cut in London (after a process of refining the pattern with a non-expensive cloth) and made in China. I have discussed this with them myself and found them to be very open about it. I wonder if the OP's experience is different. I also believe that the price level of the two options is such that it would be a considerable self-deception to believe that the "China option" was made by traditional methods in Picadilly!

Perhaps he's just upset that others get to wear the cool label for half the price.

lxlloyd wrote:While there are certain cases in which the quality is not transferrable (Hermes and it's legendary (so much so that i'm not even sure it exists) unique silk printing machinery that is the most detailed (I believe it has the most pigments) in the world....... (no-one knows how it was built and they certainly aren't going to let people take it apart to copy it)) they are few and far between.

I learnt something new today! Will you be able to point me to a link to read more about this? Thank you.

hectorm wrote:Rich and young new Asian customers -groomed by Anderson & Sheppard for instance- seem to prefer their bespoke suits made by an English owned firm and exclusively in London premises.

Is A&S targeting the Asian customers specifically? I bought a suit from them (incidentally, I am Chinese), and I am not that happy.

pur_sang wrote:

hectorm wrote:Rich and young new Asian customers -groomed by Anderson & Sheppard for instance- seem to prefer their bespoke suits made by an English owned firm and exclusively in London premises.

Is A&S targeting the Asian customers specifically? I bought a suit from them (incidentally, I am Chinese), and I am not that happy.

What didn't you like about your A&S? I have used them for the past 5-6 years, and been very happy.