Wedding Party Attire Plans
Hello LLoungers,
I have been following these forums for years at this point and have been religiously using the knowledge I have picked up here to guide my sartorial decisions. I haven't really had much opportunity to post, as I feel I still feel I have more to learn than contribute, but wanted to thank everyone for all the great information (and photos/illustrations) with which you have filled this forum.
I am to be married in October, and as I respect the opinions of many on this forum, I wanted to post my plans for the wedding attire and invite any comments or advice that any of you may have.
The bride and I have decided to host an early wedding with the ceremony beginning at 4:00PM and reception to follow. The event will be very formal all around--the ceremony will be hosted in an ornate church with the reception in the ballroom of a historic hotel with a very old-world feel--and the reception will be black tie. The bride's dress will be very formal with sleeves and a long train, and the bridesmaids will each be wearing navy floor-length gowns. The early start time, however, introduces some complexity.
Personally, I will be wearing full morning dress. I plan to have a peaked-lapel cutaway in charcoal tailored along with cashmere-striped trousers and a db peaked-lapel waistcoat. White shirt with single cuffs and detachable high imperial stiff collar (believe it or not I wear these shirts regularly in a variety of colors--though obviously not with the imperial collar. Regularly get complements on the crispness that the look with the detachable collar provides) and modestly patterned grey cravat.
With the groomsmen is where it starts to get a little more challenging. I don't want to have them renting polyester morning coats that look like an ill-fitting throwback to the 1970's; nor do I want to make everyone go out and spend the $$$ to have quality cutaways custom-made. A decent compromise we came up with (though would be open to suggestions if anyone else has ideas) is to ask the groomsmen to purchase the formal trousers and waistcoat that they clearly won't have, and provide (purchase if necessary) their shirts, ties and shoes. The bride and I are then prepared to have each of them fit for a custom affordable MTM suit. We will let each groomsman decide if he wants the jacket to be sb or db and choose between oxford, charcoal or black. The tailor will then be instructed to cut the suits formally (wide peaked lapels, 1 or 2 button, etc.) so that the jackets can then be combined with the ensemble for daytime semi-formal (stroller). That way at least they can then ditch the striped pants and have a suit they can easily wear for more formal occasions.
As far as ushers are concerned, I don't know that we are prepared to have another 4 suits custom made, so we were planning to pick up the cost of renting morning dress for them. While sub-optimal, I'm not sure what else is to be done without breaking the bank.
The other problem we run into is that we are not sure what to tell people when asked what the dress should be. We plan to include a separate reception card in the inviation on which will be printed "black tie," and include no dress code on the invitation itself (the formality of the invitation should be a give-away of sorts). While we are realistic and certainly don't expect people to a) own morning dress b) rent morning dress c) even know what morning dress is or, I guess most importantly, d) change outfits between the ceremony and reception, I find myself shuttering at the thought of actually suggesting to one of my guests that he wear his black tie to the church in the mid-afternoon. I know that people will do exactly that when they see that the reception is black tie, and that is perfectly fine and expected--I just don't want to feel like it was my doing . I'm sure many on here can relate and would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Thank you all in advance for your comments--really look forward to hearing any feedback you can provide!
I have been following these forums for years at this point and have been religiously using the knowledge I have picked up here to guide my sartorial decisions. I haven't really had much opportunity to post, as I feel I still feel I have more to learn than contribute, but wanted to thank everyone for all the great information (and photos/illustrations) with which you have filled this forum.
I am to be married in October, and as I respect the opinions of many on this forum, I wanted to post my plans for the wedding attire and invite any comments or advice that any of you may have.
The bride and I have decided to host an early wedding with the ceremony beginning at 4:00PM and reception to follow. The event will be very formal all around--the ceremony will be hosted in an ornate church with the reception in the ballroom of a historic hotel with a very old-world feel--and the reception will be black tie. The bride's dress will be very formal with sleeves and a long train, and the bridesmaids will each be wearing navy floor-length gowns. The early start time, however, introduces some complexity.
Personally, I will be wearing full morning dress. I plan to have a peaked-lapel cutaway in charcoal tailored along with cashmere-striped trousers and a db peaked-lapel waistcoat. White shirt with single cuffs and detachable high imperial stiff collar (believe it or not I wear these shirts regularly in a variety of colors--though obviously not with the imperial collar. Regularly get complements on the crispness that the look with the detachable collar provides) and modestly patterned grey cravat.
With the groomsmen is where it starts to get a little more challenging. I don't want to have them renting polyester morning coats that look like an ill-fitting throwback to the 1970's; nor do I want to make everyone go out and spend the $$$ to have quality cutaways custom-made. A decent compromise we came up with (though would be open to suggestions if anyone else has ideas) is to ask the groomsmen to purchase the formal trousers and waistcoat that they clearly won't have, and provide (purchase if necessary) their shirts, ties and shoes. The bride and I are then prepared to have each of them fit for a custom affordable MTM suit. We will let each groomsman decide if he wants the jacket to be sb or db and choose between oxford, charcoal or black. The tailor will then be instructed to cut the suits formally (wide peaked lapels, 1 or 2 button, etc.) so that the jackets can then be combined with the ensemble for daytime semi-formal (stroller). That way at least they can then ditch the striped pants and have a suit they can easily wear for more formal occasions.
As far as ushers are concerned, I don't know that we are prepared to have another 4 suits custom made, so we were planning to pick up the cost of renting morning dress for them. While sub-optimal, I'm not sure what else is to be done without breaking the bank.
The other problem we run into is that we are not sure what to tell people when asked what the dress should be. We plan to include a separate reception card in the inviation on which will be printed "black tie," and include no dress code on the invitation itself (the formality of the invitation should be a give-away of sorts). While we are realistic and certainly don't expect people to a) own morning dress b) rent morning dress c) even know what morning dress is or, I guess most importantly, d) change outfits between the ceremony and reception, I find myself shuttering at the thought of actually suggesting to one of my guests that he wear his black tie to the church in the mid-afternoon. I know that people will do exactly that when they see that the reception is black tie, and that is perfectly fine and expected--I just don't want to feel like it was my doing . I'm sure many on here can relate and would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Thank you all in advance for your comments--really look forward to hearing any feedback you can provide!
You're spending a lot of money on making your friends look expensive-- I hope they all appreciate it.
Had you considered doing a morning wedding followed by lunch, and a black tie party for those who can stick around and change after daylight has come and gone? If there's no time to change, then you might just think about bringing your daytime wear to an early supper.
Had you considered doing a morning wedding followed by lunch, and a black tie party for those who can stick around and change after daylight has come and gone? If there's no time to change, then you might just think about bringing your daytime wear to an early supper.
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Those are my plans. It just gives you that bit of breathing space.
What an interesting question! Since it is not uncommon to take care of the wedding party (especially when you have a specific look in mind), I think your approach is reasonable, if quite generous. Rentals wouldn't be the end of the world--the groom should look better than anyone else on his wedding day, and if none of these gentlemen are likely ever to wear formal dress again, then perhaps the rental is the best option for them. (If they've never worn a cutaway coat before, they'll probably feel like a million bucks anyway, just from the novelty of being so dressed up.)
As for the guests, perhaps "morning dress optional" would suffice to cue anyone who knows what morning dress is, that it will be welcome? It's open-ended enough that it doesn't tell the guests they shouldn't wear black tie, while still not going so far as to say they should. ("Formal (or 'semi-formal') dress optional" would be too open to interpretation, if your guests aren't all on the same page.) I have no idea whether that formulation is traditional, but as "black tie optional" is quite common, I should think it would work naturally enough.
As for the guests, perhaps "morning dress optional" would suffice to cue anyone who knows what morning dress is, that it will be welcome? It's open-ended enough that it doesn't tell the guests they shouldn't wear black tie, while still not going so far as to say they should. ("Formal (or 'semi-formal') dress optional" would be too open to interpretation, if your guests aren't all on the same page.) I have no idea whether that formulation is traditional, but as "black tie optional" is quite common, I should think it would work naturally enough.
Thank you all for your responses. The odd timing of the wedding (at least in my mind) is due to a desire by the bride to have "her day" be something that lasts a little longer as compared to a 7PM ceremony followed immediately by dinner and dancing. I agree with you that really it should have been an earlier start followed by lunch with down time and then an evening reception, but unfortunately as the vast majority of our guests are in from out of town the logistics of down time quickly get sticky, so we decided to just space it out a touch more with an early ceremony, longer cocktail hour (and a half), and various entertainment throughout the evening. At this point, times have been set so I'll just have to make due.
The "morning dress optional" comment is not something we had thought of, but is an interesting thought. I do like the idea and in an ideal world I think it would be a good solution, but I'm a little concerned about two things. Firstly, we want the reception to be black tie (not "optional") and I am afraid that even putting the word on the invitation will invite doubt as to the reception dress code. Secondly, amongst the more conscientious guests I worry that listing two separate dress codes will imply to them that they have the obligation to change and that not doing so would somehow displease us. While we would love to have everyone appropriately attired for both events, the last thing we want is for people to be made to feel uncomfortable. While there are a few invitees who will truly enjoy the occasion to wear two separate varieties of formalwear on the same day, that clearly will not be the sentiment of the vast majority of guests. We feel as if we are imposing enough by asking people to wear proper evening semi-formal to the reception (oh the horror!) without then additionally requiring a "costume" change between afternoon and evening festivities...
These situations consistantly remind me that I was born in the wrong generation!
The "morning dress optional" comment is not something we had thought of, but is an interesting thought. I do like the idea and in an ideal world I think it would be a good solution, but I'm a little concerned about two things. Firstly, we want the reception to be black tie (not "optional") and I am afraid that even putting the word on the invitation will invite doubt as to the reception dress code. Secondly, amongst the more conscientious guests I worry that listing two separate dress codes will imply to them that they have the obligation to change and that not doing so would somehow displease us. While we would love to have everyone appropriately attired for both events, the last thing we want is for people to be made to feel uncomfortable. While there are a few invitees who will truly enjoy the occasion to wear two separate varieties of formalwear on the same day, that clearly will not be the sentiment of the vast majority of guests. We feel as if we are imposing enough by asking people to wear proper evening semi-formal to the reception (oh the horror!) without then additionally requiring a "costume" change between afternoon and evening festivities...
These situations consistantly remind me that I was born in the wrong generation!
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If the wedding will be during evening, you choice to have a "black tie" dress code is good. With just this, people will wear as you ask. Also, eating, partying and so on is not so prohibitive with a black tie code.
It is normal you are imposing them a dressing code, it is respect to your "once lifetime event".
It is normal you are imposing them a dressing code, it is respect to your "once lifetime event".
According to etiquette, if the event starts at 4 pm and then goes on without a break into the evening (in which case guests have no time to change, even if they wanted to, without (impolitely) deserting the ongoing celebrations at some point), hosts and guests should come in (semi)formal daywear and keep it. That excludes black tie for the reception.
Are YOU going to change into black tie, abandoning your guests at some point to change clothes? If so, you might consider introducing a break in the program, sometime after the church ceremony and before the reception, during which guests MAY gather, in waiting for the reception, in a specific place (or linger on in the cocktail lounge), unhosted. This offers guests who can and wish to change time for this, without "leaving" their hosts and the party, while the others will probably choose (and it shall not be your fault) to come to church already in black tie and, while others "freshen up", they may enjoy another glass in company until everyone gathers again for the reception.
Are YOU going to change into black tie, abandoning your guests at some point to change clothes? If so, you might consider introducing a break in the program, sometime after the church ceremony and before the reception, during which guests MAY gather, in waiting for the reception, in a specific place (or linger on in the cocktail lounge), unhosted. This offers guests who can and wish to change time for this, without "leaving" their hosts and the party, while the others will probably choose (and it shall not be your fault) to come to church already in black tie and, while others "freshen up", they may enjoy another glass in company until everyone gathers again for the reception.
Thanks for the helpful response. The ceremony will begin at 4PM and run for somewhere betwen 35-45 minutes, after which the guests will be transported to the reception site. At that point, beginning at around 5PM, a cocktail gathering will commence in the lounge area outside of the ballroom. Neither the bride nor I will be be in attendence for the cocktail hour, as we are told by those "in the know" that we should use that time to take photographs and then make our "grand entrance" once the reception has officially begun. I was in fact going to change to black tie during this hour as well.
As most will be coming in from out of town, will not be changing and will have nowhere to go, we don't want to introduce a "break" persay--there will be an open bar and entertainment (string quintet) during this time. However, it sounds like maybe you are suggesting that we emphasize the optional aspect of this period so that guests know they are free to excuse themselves to change/freshen up? Or is the simple fact that the bride and I are not in attendance enough to make the optionality readily apparent?
Thanks again everyone. Appreciate the thoughts.
As most will be coming in from out of town, will not be changing and will have nowhere to go, we don't want to introduce a "break" persay--there will be an open bar and entertainment (string quintet) during this time. However, it sounds like maybe you are suggesting that we emphasize the optional aspect of this period so that guests know they are free to excuse themselves to change/freshen up? Or is the simple fact that the bride and I are not in attendance enough to make the optionality readily apparent?
Thanks again everyone. Appreciate the thoughts.
Yes, something along these lines. That is, make it clear that the cocktail hour is NOT part of the celebrations (where the bride and groom should be present at all times), but rather an interlude during which guests who have nothing else to do until the reception time may gather in waiting (with music and drinks), but they don't HAVE to attend.GMRadman wrote:However, it sounds like maybe you are suggesting that we emphasize the optional aspect of this period so that guests know they are free to excuse themselves to change/freshen up?
Etiquette may vary, but I don't know about the "grand entrance" at the reception. The way I am used to it, the bride and groom make their "grand entrance" in church, where all guests should be present BEFORE the bride and groom arrive (so they are not met and greeted by the couple, who are not YET hosts), while at the reception the bride and groom are hosts now and they are supposed to RECEIVE their guests as they arrive, rather than make an entrance as they are already there. Given the already made arrangements, perhaps you could at least get inside the ballroom through the back door when you return for the reception and open the doors to your guests who are lounging outside of it, receiving them and thanking for their presence. Does this make sense in your neck of the woods, as it does in mine?
Costi, thank you for the very good advice. I have to admit that I have very minimal experience with weddings, and a great deal of the information my bride and I have gotten is from family, friends, and "consultants" who do this for a living. Unfortunately with the breakdown in etiquette in recent years I have to constantly be skeptical of the advice I'm given, as often even those whose job it is to know such things are quite ignorant.
Opening the doors from inside and welcoming our guests to the reception is certainly how it should be done. The "grand entrance" (which I am told is the common way things are done in these parts) always seemed to me quite self-serving, and not how hosts should behave. Sadly the "it's your day, and it should be about you" mentality seems to serve as an excuse for many various forms of self-adulation advocated in much of the advice given to us (and which I have done my best to tune out), with the "grand entrance" being a perfect example thereof.
Opening the doors from inside and welcoming our guests to the reception is certainly how it should be done. The "grand entrance" (which I am told is the common way things are done in these parts) always seemed to me quite self-serving, and not how hosts should behave. Sadly the "it's your day, and it should be about you" mentality seems to serve as an excuse for many various forms of self-adulation advocated in much of the advice given to us (and which I have done my best to tune out), with the "grand entrance" being a perfect example thereof.
Thank goodness for that! You should try to stick to one wedding per lifetime, if you can make it work.GMRadman wrote:… I have to admit that I have very minimal experience with weddings..
Oh, wait… I get it now…
I think you clearly recognise the need to balance your admirable aspiration to the superior habits of yesteryear with the inescapable need to respect current social norms to some extent. Noblesse oblige and all that. If the bride’s parents are hosting the reception, one compromise which I’ve witnessed at a couple of ‘society’ weddings in the US Midwest is for the parents to ‘receive’ guests at the reception and the newlyweds to make their entrance a little bit later, with the excuse of the photos.GMRadman wrote:..breakdown in etiquette in recent years…are quite ignorant… the common way things are done in these parts
ON THE ISSUE OF DRESS, if I may make so bold as to add to and perhaps contradict Costi’s advice and that of others I would propose going all-black tie. Let me explain.
You and I and all LLoungers know that 4 PM should mean morning suit, if necessary worn into the evening. However, especially if the wedding is not at the height of summer, 4 PM also slides pretty quickly into night time. It sounds from a number of your statements that, from a logistical standpoint, it would be much, much easier to START in black tie and stick with it.
I’m as enthusiastic as anyone about injecting events with a sense of occasion and tradition and making an effort but at the same time spontaneity and a light touch should not be forgotten either. The “morning coat wedding – newlyweds and many guests disappear for quite a while – black-tie reception” sequence you are considering strikes me as rather convoluted as opposed to an extended event in which, at any rate, black tie should mean most people still look quite elegant even if (pre-war?) etiquette is flouted to some extent.
Put a different way, based on a fairly numerous number of weddings attended with very varying degrees of formality, I would agree with your instinct that gently nudging guests to up their game, so to speak, can work well but only with a realistic eye to your environment.
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I think Lucca gives good advice.
I understand that in the USA 99% of your guests will expect a smart wedding to be black tie these days. This does not stop you from doing the morning dress to black tie swap but will make it easier for everyone else. You have already said you will be away for the cocktail hour and someone, I imagine your's and the bride's parents and your ushers and bridesmaids, will be around to introduce people to each other etc. If everyone is changing this will be difficult.
I understand that in the USA 99% of your guests will expect a smart wedding to be black tie these days. This does not stop you from doing the morning dress to black tie swap but will make it easier for everyone else. You have already said you will be away for the cocktail hour and someone, I imagine your's and the bride's parents and your ushers and bridesmaids, will be around to introduce people to each other etc. If everyone is changing this will be difficult.
4 pm in October? Party in full morning dress and strollers, and guests in black - tie?GMRadman wrote: The bride and I have decided to host an early wedding with the ceremony beginning at 4:00PM and reception to follow.
I respectfully think that no marriage deserves to start on such an ambiguous note.
I agree with Concordia. If you and your bride want the celebrations to be very formal indeed (and you´re expending lots of money and effort), you might consider either a morning wedding or starting it after sunset.
Thank you all for the responses. I appreciate the varying opinions and will simply need to take some time to think it though. It's very nice to have a forum like this where one can bounce ideas around and get some good and helpful ideas. Appreciate the feedback.
Hello gentlemen (and ladies, if any exist on this forum). As I for one love reading about how others eventually resolve the issues they come to this board with, I thought I would post a follow-up post my wedding.
We ended up having the wedding at 4PM as planned, and specified "Formal Attire" on the invitations. I wore full morning dress and groomsmen wore stroller for the ceremony and we then changed to Black Tie for the reception (which I do realize is in reality not Formal, but in this day in age had someone shown up in White Tie I would have personally given him a standing ovation). There was about 45 minutes of downtime between the end of the ceremony and the start of the cocktail hour preceding the reception, which gave those interested--or required in the case of the groomsmen--to change the ability to do so.
As expected, most guests wore Black Tie to both occasions, though a surprising number felt uncomfortable wearing a tux in the daytime and opted to change from morning dress or a formal suit and tie to Black Tie for the reception--pleasant surprise.
For those curious, here are a some assorted pictures from the event.
Thank you all again for all your input--it was very useful in helping me to think through the various options and coming up with a plan to make the event flow properly while also keeping the dress appropriate. This forum has also been extremely helpful in shaping my views on menswear, and much of what I have learned here was evident in the attire I chose for this event. So, again, thank you all.
We ended up having the wedding at 4PM as planned, and specified "Formal Attire" on the invitations. I wore full morning dress and groomsmen wore stroller for the ceremony and we then changed to Black Tie for the reception (which I do realize is in reality not Formal, but in this day in age had someone shown up in White Tie I would have personally given him a standing ovation). There was about 45 minutes of downtime between the end of the ceremony and the start of the cocktail hour preceding the reception, which gave those interested--or required in the case of the groomsmen--to change the ability to do so.
As expected, most guests wore Black Tie to both occasions, though a surprising number felt uncomfortable wearing a tux in the daytime and opted to change from morning dress or a formal suit and tie to Black Tie for the reception--pleasant surprise.
For those curious, here are a some assorted pictures from the event.
Thank you all again for all your input--it was very useful in helping me to think through the various options and coming up with a plan to make the event flow properly while also keeping the dress appropriate. This forum has also been extremely helpful in shaping my views on menswear, and much of what I have learned here was evident in the attire I chose for this event. So, again, thank you all.
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