The London Lounge

When I turned thirty last year, I decided it was time to start dressing like an adult again (I say again as I wore a blazer and tie almost every day of my school-boy career, followed by a twelve-year aberration of scruffiness as a student then media-industry type). And so these last six months I have been trying a few different tailors around London, from soft to structured, to find a style and tailor with which I am happy.
This has not been my first experience with bespoke. I suspect the first and maybe only bespoke suit many men have made is the one they wear on their wedding day. This was certainly the case for me around four years ago, when it felt like something of an extravagance, one that I did not expect to be able to repeat for a few years at least. I also suspect that tailors know this to be the case, and when a new customer turns up for a suit for their wedding, some may take the opportunity to let an apprentice cutter or new coat-maker have a go, knowing this customer will not know any better and in any case they’re unlikely to see them again. There are certainly reports elsewhere on these pages of unsatisfactory experiences with wedding-related commissions. My own experience was fine – I did get an apprentice cutter, but he offered good advice and I was very happy with the suit I received: it was exactly what I wanted, fits well and looks good to this day; and most importantly it was delivered in good time for the big day. However, when I recently returned to this same tailor to commission a topcoat, my experience was quite different – I dealt with the head cutter throughout, felt generally more valued, and to my inexperienced eye at least, the finish of the final product seemed noticeably better (I’m delighted with it).
Another mistake I have recently made is to make my first commission from a new tailor when they were offering a discount. Again I felt like my custom was not as valued as it might have been, and I was not terribly happy with the end result. I couldn’t help feeling that if I’d paid full price, this may not have been the case.
The final rookie error I have made was to tell a tailor I was not in a hurry for a suit. Just as the initial consultation was ending, he asked, all casual, “Is there any particular date you’d like it for, sir?” I knew I’d said the wrong thing as soon as I’d opened my mouth, but I wasn’t quick enough on my feet to think of anything, so just said “No”. Nearly four months later and despite my gentle hurrying, I am still waiting for a first fitting!
So based on my experience thus far, my advice to those new to bespoke tailoring is to pay full price; give your tailor a deadline, made up if necessary; and if the suit is for your wedding, try to imply you are looking for a tailor for the long term, and intend to commission many more suits in the future. I reckon you’ll get better service and a better end product. And it gets much easier next time.

I too made the mistake of informing my first commission that I was not in a hurry. It's over one month and I'm still waiting for my first sitting. Not being a patient sort, I visited another bespoke tailor and had two suits commissioned from him. I've had two fittings in the three weeks since I placed the order and I expect the final fitting next week. So far, I'm very pleased with the results. All of the little things that I wanted changed or corrected are being attended. I was very specific in my details and specifications with the second tailor. I do not trust any tailor to know my mind and how I envision the suit to look like so I provide him with as complete a picture as I can. It's easy for the tailor to repeat his trademarked suit but I take the word custom and bespoke literally and therefore I leave the cutting and fitting and sewing to the tailor but I provide the blueprint. If I'm wrong, then it's back to the drawing board but at least the error is of my own making. Of course, I'll listen to the tailor and if he tells me what I want is impossible, I'll consider his judgement.

Interesting thoughts. I commissioned my first bespoke suit for my wedding and didn’t make a secret of it. I recall that a junior cutter was involved throughout – he took my measurements and was present at most of the fittings - but I certainly got the impression that the head cutter was in charge and that the junior cutter was there to receive training (which is how I assume junior cutters get their experience). Of course, I have no idea who actually cut the cloth or was responsible for any of the other work behind the scenes. But I’d be surprised if many firms really did take the opportunity of a suit being commissioned for a wedding to allow their junior people to go off on a frolic of their own – even if only a small number of those customers do typically return, why put that potential business at risk?

Might the small differences be explained by the fact that, by the time you came to order your second suit, you had more experience of the process and a better idea of what you wanted? Certainly, when I put on my first commissioned suit now, as much as I still like it, I do find myself thinking “I would do this slightly differently…” or “I wonder how it would look if…”. During the making of that suit, I was very much guided by the head cutter.

Likewise with tailors offering discounts. I would expect them to see it as an opportunity to attract and impress new customers, thereby possibly securing their future business.

Still, could be that I’m hopelessly naïve. Certainly, I suppose it would do no harm to keep quiet about your wedding in those circumstances. And I would always advocate giving the impression that you intend to be a repeat customer if you’re happy with the end result, whatever service or product you're buying!

Cooked, Woody and Roberto

Welcome to the LL.

I am very glad to read your reports and experiences as they can be very helpful to men preparing for their first bespoke orders. You have together hit on many themes central to this endeavor.

The idea of a “discount” tailor had never occurred to me but as such things do exist and doubts can surface about their wholehearted application to the task at hand, I think of Balzac’s comment that “economizing is the ruin of elegance.”

There are two sides to the new client, old client question. Yes, a long term customer who has developed a strong relationship will often get special treatment but it is also possible that complacency can set in. Many craftsmen today are keen on acquiring new clients and will put their all into this work. So, one must be vigilant as a new client or an old one.

But more than vigilant one must be enthusiastic and truly enjoy the process. There are few true craftsmen insensible to the reward of appreciation.

Cheers

Michael Alden

alden wrote:There are few true craftsmen insensible to the reward of appreciation.

Very true! A heartfelt "Thank you!", a smile and a handshake is worth more than the price paid to a true artisan. On the contrary, paying dryly as if to a vending machine is disheartening. Be generous with your appreciation (when deserved!) and you'll receive not just "better service", but a better relationship.

roberto_k wrote:Still, could be that I’m hopelessly naïve.

Not naive, but in good faith
As for the time frame for completing a suit, a simple "I'm in no hurry" will take your order straight to the bottom of a pile, and I know few tailors who don’t have one Putting too much pressure does no good, either, but a reasonable time frame should be set with every new order.

My experience differs, but that is probably because of geography. I made the point from the beginning (when I placed my first order, in 2007) that I was not in a hurry, and would prefer quality to speed.
Since I lives in Paris, and my tailor (Meyer & Mortimer/Jones Chalk & Dawson) is in London, I plan my visits to London well in advance to get the cheapest Eurostar tickets possible, and to ensure Mr. Munday is not away seeing his customers in the Far East, or the US/Canada. In between my own trips to London, I have fittings here, on one of his own visits to Paris (at least two per year).
It does take longer to deliver a suit than if I lived in London, of course, and sometimes a suit you expect to get finished still requires some further tweaking, but I feel this is all part and parcel of getting a SR suit. The Eurostar only takes two hours and fifteen minutes, city centre to city centre. Things could be worse.

roberto_k wrote:Might the small differences be explained by the fact that, by the time you came to order your second suit, you had more experience of the process and a better idea of what you wanted? Certainly, when I put on my first commissioned suit now, as much as I still like it, I do find myself thinking “I would do this slightly differently…” or “I wonder how it would look if…”. During the making of that suit, I was very much guided by the head cutter.

Yes I was certainly more at ease the second time - and indeed had I known then what I know now I might have done things a little differently for my first suit. I should emphasise I had no complaints at all with my experience with that first commission - as I said the apprentice cutter was very professional and offered good advice, which I followed, and I was very pleased with the result. Indeed I was pleased enough to go back again four years later.

The differences in quality between the first and second commission may well exist only in my imagination - or be down to slight variations from one maker to another, or perhaps they've just improved their standards in the intervening years. But I'm sure there was a difference in their attitude towards me: yes perhaps because I was more relaxed, a little older and wiser, and had less riding on the outcome. But I couldn't help feeling that it was also because I was now considered a "proper" customer, here to order interesting clothes for actual everyday wear, rather than just a one-off for a special occasion. Or maybe I'm just hopelessly cynical!

Putting myself in the tailor's shoes I can imagine one sees a lot of customers come and go for just one suit, whom of course one seeks to serve just as professionally as any other; but it must be pleasing when one of them comes back for more - an indication yes that one's skill has been appreciated, but also that here is a customer with whom perhaps one may develop a long and fruitful relationship of interesting commissions - and therefore one's attitude towards that customer might shift, perhaps subliminally, but not imperceptibly.

I suppose what I was trying to suggest was that in an ideal world one would seek to give that impression to the tailor from the very start.

roberto_k wrote:Likewise with tailors offering discounts. I would expect them to see it as an opportunity to attract and impress new customers, thereby possibly securing their future business.

I had rather expected the same. Perhaps it was my fault for not bespeaking the thing properly, but even after some tweaks, the jacket just doesn't look quite right (though the trousers are fine). I suppose that may have happened regardless of the discount. I also felt a little rushed at the fittings, and less "involved" in the process than I had elsewhere - but again, maybe that's just how things are at that particular house.

alden wrote:The idea of a “discount” tailor had never occurred to me

Yes, something of a contradiction in terms! But it wasn't so much a discount tailor as a tailor offering a temporary discount in order to encourage customers to get their orders in ahead of a tax increase here in the UK - I saw others doing the same at the time.

Thanks for your welcome and advice - I look forward to enjoying many more commissions with the aid of all I've learnt (and will continue to learn) from the lounge.