The London Lounge

Dear fellow members,

I have recently ventured into the commissioning my first bespoke Dinner Jacket with Henry Poole. I have made a choice of a DB, shawl lapel, mid-night blue DJ with Smith's mohair mixed fabric. I have always subconsciously prefer DB to SB and since I had peak lapel MTM DJ in the past, I wanted to go for something different.

I hope fellow members of this lounge could comment on this bespoke project. There are certain parts of the DJ I am not entirely sure about and would appreciate to have some advices.

1) My tailor suggests that black satin facing would suit the mid-night blue shawl lapel better than grosgrain. He also thinks that blue facing could be "too blue" and may appear lighter than the jacket.

2) I showed him the picture of Prince Michael of Kent in his mid-night blue DJ and he said from the cutting of the jacket and the colour, it should be a smoking jacket that he is wearing. The colour does seems a bit too light in the picture perhaps due to daylight( The Prince perhaps was traveling in his DJ during daylight to whatever his destination). However, I believe he must have been mistaken, that the Prince was in fact wearing a mid-night blue, DB shawl lapel DJ.

3) Vent. Initially I asked for double vents. I understand that ventless for a DB dinner jacket is the most formal and usual practice. I believe that double vents could give greater comfort and shape when seated and I understand that the Duke of Windsor had his DJ cut with double vents for this reason.

4) Buttons. I initially asked for black horn buttons instead of cloth covered buttons as I think it would give it a less rented look and discreetly dressing down in formality.

I would be most appreciated to hear your views on the points that I have mentioned.

Thank you very much,

Watson

As regards Prince Michael’s dinner suit, I believe it is black. Dinner suits are the only garments I wear in black so I will not be of much counsel to you. But I expect there are midnight blue wearers in the LL who can give you some advice.



I don’t seem to see vents in Windsor’s coat but they very well may be there. It is really and absolutely “up to you” to have them or not. My own preference is no vents. I keep nothing in my pockets so access to them is not an issue. And the most strenuous activity on any given evening likely will be drinking too much Champagne, so added comfort is not high on the list of my priorities.



As regards buttons, my own are silk covered to match the lapels. The silk just reinforces the fact that the coat is not a normal lounge coat swapped from a business suit, and that it has a special function for a special function. But, once again, you must know yourself.

Cheers

Michael Alden

John,

how about polished corozo nut buttons for your dinner suit instead of covered or horn buttons? There are some lovely numbers with two holes out there. My tailor insists that these are "the real thing" — they seem to be so at least in Austria, where he lives and works.

When one wears a dinner jacket, one is presumed to be out for some fun and possibly even mischief. These are likely to be purely social events, or what passes for such on the charity circuit. This is not a jacket to conduct business in. It is a jacket to enjoy life in. Taking that into consideration, you might exclude ordinary buttons from your selection, on account of their association with daytime affairs.

Thank you Mr. Alden and other fellow members,

I understand that the ventless model is the most proper for DJ but would side vents make the jacket look better when seated? It may also seems uncomfortable if you can't reach your hands into your pockets (even if you do not have anything in them).

As for Prince Michael's jacket, it seems quite mid-night blue to me... Watson

Alden wrote:

I don’t seem to see vents in Windsor’s coat but they very well may be there.

Michael , below two pictures showing the DOW wearing a dinner jacket with side vents. The first is from December 1955 and the second one from February 1960. Both pictures seem to suggest that the presence of side vents in a dinner jacket could have been very likely a variant, like many others , firstly introduced by the DOW.

http://img691.imageshack.us/i/windsrsidevents.jpg/

http://img23.imageshack.us/i/windssidevents1.jpg/

Gentlemen,

just had a first fitting on my dinner jacket in midnight blue barathea. It will be a DB with shawl collar. My tailor Mr Mahon just published a blog post with my cloth on the cutting board
www.englishcut.com

The fitting went very well, I am looking forward to the finished garment.

Cheers, david

John,

I currently have a RTW DB dinner jacket without vents, and not only do I feel uncomfortable when sitting down, but I also feel at a loss what to do with my hands when standing up. If I ever get round to bespeaking another, I shall certainly ask for double vents.

Sartorial Caledonia

This of course is why dinner suits often have no vents. It is also why many continental suits especially German have box jackets as hands in pockets is more of a no no over there

Sartorial Caledonian wrote:John,

I currently have a RTW DB dinner jacket without vents, and not only do I feel uncomfortable when sitting down, but I also feel at a loss what to do with my hands when standing up. If I ever get round to bespeaking another, I shall certainly ask for double vents.

Undo the buttons before you sit down and, when standing up, if you cannot fill your arms with a dancing partner, follow Ava Gardner's advice and have a cigarette in one hand and a glass of whisky in the other...

NJS

NJS wrote:

Sartorial Caledonian wrote:John,

I currently have a RTW DB dinner jacket without vents, and not only do I feel uncomfortable when sitting down, but I also feel at a loss what to do with my hands when standing up. If I ever get round to bespeaking another, I shall certainly ask for double vents.

Undo the buttons before you sit down and, when standing up, if you cannot fill your arms with a dancing partner, follow Ava Gardner's advice and have a cigarette in one hand and a glass of whisky in the other...

NJS

Good advice indeed NJS. I shall endeavour to follow it to the letter!

John H. Watson, M.D wrote: There are certain parts of the DJ I am not entirely sure about and would appreciate to have some advices.

1) My tailor suggests that black satin facing would suit the mid-night blue shawl lapel better than grosgrain. He also thinks that blue facing could be "too blue" and may appear lighter than the jacket.

I think this is very good advice given by your tailor. While black lapel facings on a midnight blue DJ look significantly darker under daylight, they look lighter under artificial light and will be a better complement for your mohair mixed cloth. I dare to say that this is the touch that will "make" your DB jacket a DJ.
For the same reason I would advise you on covered buttons and no vents. But I´m a traditionalist, you know.
And -since you seem concerned about it- please believe me that nobody in the knowing will think that you have rented such a suit.

I have a shawl lapel DB dinner suit in midnight Smith's mohair blend. I asked for black contrasting lapel facings, but my tailor refused and insisted on finding blue grosgrain that would match. Something about black facings on midnight being for singers.

I went ventless, but would get vents if I could do it over again. I can't sit without wrinkling the front of the jacket, unless I unbutton. But then, like me, you'll need a cummerbund. Vents would make things a lot easier, and you can always have them removed later if you prefer. You can't go the other way.

The big question you need to ask yourself is whether you want button holes in your lapels, and how many. None, one on your left lapel, or one on each side--you can find precedent for each. Now, that's something to struggle over.

and have a cigarette in one hand and a glass of whisky in the other...

A balanced diet!

mafoofan wrote:I have a shawl lapel DB dinner suit. I went ventless, but would get vents if I could do it over again. I can't sit without wrinkling the front of the jacket, unless I unbutton. But then, like me, you'll need a cummerbund.

I would advise against a cummerbund with a DB DJ.
A trick that works for me when I'm wearing DB jackets with no vents at dinner is to undo the outside button and keep the interior button fastened. You'll see that It opens up nicely and you're not showing the meeting of trousers and shirt to anybody.