Dear Hectorm,
Thank your for your reply agreeing with Russell.
Having scoured the forums, it seems that your views accord with the majority of the members.
However, there are a couple of dissenting opinions:
What to look for in a trousering?*
http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... =4&t=11077
Scot wrote:davidhuh wrote:hectorm wrote:
I wonder why you would refuse to have your rough tweed trousers lined, ever. Which are the disadvantages you discussed with Mr. Mahon? I think I may learn something here.
Dear Hectorm,
If I remember well, he simply said that it was something he would not recommend. The cloth he would be working with was comfortable to wear without lining for most people. So far, it works fine for me, even with the tweeds and flannels mentioned. But I will check with him if he has any specific reasons I don't remember - this was 3 years ago when we discussed it.
Cheers, David
Malcolm Plews was never one for lining trousers either - said it made them difficult to press really well. He would make a "drop-in" lining that you could remove from the leg of the trousers for pressing. Works quite well with tweed.
Finmeresco makes very nice warm weather trousers and is perfectly comfortable without lining.
Harris Tweed
http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... 31&t=10491
Simon A wrote:Perhaps slightly off-topic, but the Harris Tweeds and Cheviots with a slightly rough handle can cause irritation to the legs even if lined. The seams on the inside leg tend to chafe, lined or unlined. The solution I have found is to wear knee-length boxer shorts, which are cheap and easy to have made, and long socks. You can then enjoy the warmth and robustness of your tweeds without the need for lining. If you are walking distances, hiking or hunting in your trousers, lining will just make you hot and sweaty, and then chilly when you cool down.
Most of the Harris Tweed I have seen over the past decade is in the 13-15 oz weight; this is the spec that sells in the broader market. It is difficult to produce a tweed on a Hattersley Loom that is durable, drapes well, holds its shape and is warm at this weight; it is pushing 19th century technology to perform a task it was not designed for. If you can find 20 oz vintage Harris Tweed that is densely woven, snap it up.
I think the topic is getting interesting. At this point, all my instincts and experience say 'don't line them'. I am honestly and sincerely of the opinion that the trousers and breeks will be more comfortable and practical unlined.
The comfort question is an interesting one, and is often talked about in terms of 'sensitivity of the skin'. At the risk of taking the discussion into completely new territory, perhaps 'point of view' is equally important. By that I mean, perhaps a similar subjective experience is outside the bounds of acceptability for one person, and well within those bounds for another. The perfect example of this would be food, one person can honestly and sincerely enjoy eating something which is completely unacceptable to another. The food doesn't change, but the subjective experience differs radically.
All through this discussion, I have been experimenting with wool next to the skin. Yesterday, in the interests of scientific research, I wore my tweed wrapped tightly around my legs like a skirt while I cooked and ate dinner and did the washing up. I struggle to describe the sensation. There is no doubt that when the tweed first meets the skin, it is an unfamiliar sensation. I hesitate to use the word 'scratchy', because scratchy has a negative connotation, and the feeling I am describing is not unpleasant. Perhaps a 'comfortable scratchiness' would sum it up best. Like a firm massage which seems as though it is painful, and yet is incredibly pleasant.
I have also been wearing my coarsest wool sweater around the house with nothing underneath it. The sweater is a heavy rough Irish wool. I have to say that after a few minutes, even wearing this sweater is surprisingly comfortable. I would not however want to wear it in this manner for extended periods, as I think the rough and heavy crew neck would rapidly feel uncomfortable around the neck.
Of course, the reason for these interesting experiments is simply to decide about the issue of linings. My conclusions are as follows:
To begin with, sewn in Bemburg (or similar) linings are out, for reasons discussed
ad nauseam. No way.
However, I do have to acknowledge that some room to move with is necessary. If I have my trousers unlined, and to my surprise, they turn out to be much more uncomfortable that I thought, what do I do?
There are several options which I am considering.
Firstly, are there any other lining materials which could be used? How about cotton? Cotton is definitely not good against the skin in an outdoor context, it holds moisture, sticks to the skin when wet, and is a poor insulator when damp. Or silk? How does silk perform as an outdoor base layer, ie as an insulator and when wet or damp?
Secondly, it has been mentioned that from a comfort point of view, the biggest issue is the seams. How about covering the seams with some sort of piping?
Thirdly, drop-in linings have also been mentioned. This sounds like a great idea. I assume we are talking about something like this, from
Windsor's clothes Part 1 http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... 90&p=10034
This looks like a great way to cover one's bases. It wouldn't be practical for all conditions, but provides a very useful extra set of options.
Lastly, all of this is dependent on what is worn underneath the trousers. Long boxers or long johns (wool of course!) would be my plan, depending on season, so in any event my legs will be covered to the mid thigh.
So, the conclusion at this point is, I will ask for piped or covered seams in the upper inside leg and crotch of the trousers and breeks. I will also discuss the possibility of a drop-in lining and see how feasible this is. Other than that, the trousers and breeks will be unlined. Coupled with the possibility of wearing something covering at least part of the legs underneath, I think this will be a very workable, practical and comfortable approach.
There, job done! The anticipation is building to a crescendo.
One final question, what were Mallory's tweeds lined with when he ascended Everest? What did Carter line his tweeds with in Egypt?
And, I have just realised that I have been wearing my rough Irish sweater with nothing underneath for two hours without even noticing it...
As always, the members' thoughts are eagerly anticipated.
Merry Christmas everyone!