Can bespoke enter the computer age.

[davidhuh]

Good evening all.
I don't post much here but I do spend a great deal of time reading posts and marveling at the beautiful workmanship on display. I wanted to post a comment on this topic from a different view. I hope to not come across bitter in this "rant". I am an apprentice, or rather I was an apprentice. My wife and I sold all we own in order to pursue my love of tailoring. I was 26 at the time and together we moved to Italy where I learned under Maestro Gallo until our money ran out. I lived and breathed tailoring. For two years I was the first to arrive at the shop and the last to leave. When I went home to our closet sized studio I crouched by the little light source and practiced button holes. At night I dreamed the steps necessary to make a bespoke coat so perfectly described by Mr. Shattuck. I worked hard and even with the huge language barrier I was able to complete three full suits with the aid of my Meastro. 6 months ago we left Rome and returned to the states, broke but full of hope. I came back with experience anda basic understanding of suit making. Upon arrival to the states I hit the ground running I contacted every tailor in the states who remotely looked like he does something relatively close to bespoke work and I got nothing. Not one tailor wanted to "try" me out, most never responded to my calls or emails. I never asked for money just knowledge. All I wanted was to continue my work. To put in the time needed to become a Maestro and all I asked for was a master to help me. Frank is right you cannot learn this in a little time, you can't learn it on your own and no book will contain the information needed to train your hands what to feel or how to move. But if those in the know won't teach then tailoring is already dead and has no chance of even thinking about entering into the "computer age." I currently am trying (with little luck) to teach myself how to tailor when I am not at work in a coffee shop.
It just becomes boring hearing tailors complain about their craft dying when there are youth out there dying to work.

Dear Eric,

this is a moving story and proof that young people are passionate about tailoring, the same as young people (some, I admit it) are also passionate about wearing tailored suits.

Stay true to yourself and follow your path, please. And keep us updated. Fingers crossed!

David

[old henry]

I forgot about Nino Corvato. That is not good. He is the real deal too. ... And Chris Despos, a great craftsman , is in Chicago, yes .
When I started with my old tailors , I remember , I would pick up these two little old twins in my truck in the mornings, many mornings, not all, and drive them to work. I had to lift Frank in. At the shop, plug in the iron and turn up the heat.The iron would tik. We didnt really talk. "Here. Look" that was about it. Around noon or so one of their wives would arrive with lunch and begin heating it on the iron. Louie Pisegnia might stop by with home made wine. In the afternoon old customers would start stopping by, most of them friends of both of my grand fathers. All of them old. My great grandfathers full dress pattern still hung in the shop. A photo of the Mayor , in one of their suits, shaking hands with John F. Kennedy, hung on the wall. The radio played old things. The old tailors couldnt pay me. In fact I mowed their lawns and tied up their tomatoes. And I had to thread their needles. I worked part time at my friends fathers construction co and I renovated an old four unit apt house on Grant Blvd across from Steigerwalds Butcher and The Change of Pace Saloon. The old tailors took so much time to show me. They couldnt believe I wanted to be a tailor. The grandson of two of their best customers wants to be a tailor ? I was never one to care to learn life from a book. They liked me around. I one time took them snagging salmon up on the salmon river with my friends. Here we are snagging 30 pound salmon up on the Salmon River in the redneck town of Port Ontario NY with two elegant little 87 year old twin tailors in handmade three piece suits yelling at each other in Italian. Even Fellini couldnt come up with this. I will never forget running with them ,as they held on to each other, into the woods when we saw the game wardens comming 'round the bend. They loved it. They never stopped talking about it. Soon after they lost their lease for the shop where they had been since the 1930s . I moved to NYC . These two old tailors are in all of my suits. I remember them most when I am pressing. All, all, all of the old men I learned from are gone. I feel sorry for Eric.

[Merc]

I forgot about Nino Corvato. That is not good. He is the real deal too. ...

I had a friend who died, then in his 80's, more than a decade ago..He owned a custom mens clothing company in Manhattan. I dont think it would meet full bespoke standards--but anyway Nino had worked for him many many years ago (late 1970's perhaps?) i think as head cutter. The guy has been around a long time

[mmkn2]

trying (with little luck)

How about striking out on your own?

I once lamented at the end of my medical training that I haven't done ALL the procedures of my profession out there. Upon hearing this my sage professor advised, "But M, you have learned all the principles of your field, and have applied them. Anything new out there, even though you haven't actually done it, will just be the practice of applying these principles."

Seems like Maestro Gallo has taught you many of the needed principles.

I don't know about business education however, maybe that is what you are wondering about.

- M

[old henry]

i think nino makes david lettermans suits. he is a solid craftsman ... also..mmkn2 is right where there is a will there is a way. i told eric he has a standing invite to come here - way up here - and i would show him anything i can. come for a weekend or a week. i would never tell him no. i cannot pay him and i am as far north as you can go. a guy drove here from indiana to ask me questions about the mitchell system. when i asked Henry Stewart for a job he just shut the door. funny old grump he was. I went back and banded on the door and showed him a baste up i had` made and he asked who made the canvas then shut the door again. Then he called me a week later and asked if i really made that canvas and i said yessir and he said see you on monday. he paid me $225 a week. i made his canvas and shrunk the cloth and stitched lapels and i learned how to make the best side vents ever and i learmed how to draft with the mitchell systen and cup the vent and hem. and i went to the coffee shop and the stage deli for Henrys corned beef and i delivered martin scorsceses garments across 57th st.and on henrys wall was a phoyto copy of a $2000 dollar check that paul newman had given to him as a tip ..a tip,,for the beautiful top coat he had made for him for The Color of Money.. and i watched and i learned. Take a look at paul newmans suits and shoulders and top coat in that movie. Real mens tailoring. 57st NYC..FS

[uppercase]

These are wonderful stories, old henry.
Thanks!

[old henry]

Thank you so much , uppercase. I was wondering if I was going on too much but stories come back to me.I am waiting for two lengths of cloth to come and i have nothing else to do in the shop. i make one only at a time. All the stories are in my suits. That show I see it.Thats the charm I speak of.The Life. Computers cant be the life.Thats what is missing. All of the life swirrling around the craft. FS

[Eric_YoungTailor]

Dear all,
I am thankful for all of your responses. My passion for this art is great that I cannot stop it will feel like a piece of me is missing. I want to thank Frank for his offer and I will most certainly take him up on his offer even if it is for a weekend. Frank is a gentleman and a world class tailor. It will be an honour to learn under him.
I am thankful for the encouragement and I will continue to work on my own for the time being. I have made a few suits for my self but they are not up to the quality that they should be in order to call myself a tailor or sell the the public. Although, my wife is grateful to be my test subject because she is always happy to have a new coat.
mmkn2, I am currently trying to strike out on my own (seems to be the only option at the moment) but I still really do have much to learn. Maestro Gallo did teach me the beginnings and probably more but I still have much to learn. Hopefully someday I will have to honour of making some LL members suits.
Respectfully and gratefully,

EJ

[davidhuh]

Thats the charm I speak of.The Life.

Dear Frank,

thank you for being around and alive!

david

[old henry]

Perhaps you can see why I get so angry when worthy, tough, good old cloths are discontinued .

[mmkn2]

have much to learn

^ Never lose this spirit, fight the dreaded final common pathway of all life - namely calcification [or in my field, rigor mortis ], and stay humble . . .

From Sir William Osler, "It is astonishing with how little reading a doctor can practice medicine, but it is not astonishing how badly he may do it."

Substitute doctor with tailor, reading with staying open, flexible, and humble to new perspectives . . .

- M

[Screaminmarlon]

I forgot about Nino Corvato. That is not good. He is the real deal too. ... And Chris Despos, a great craftsman , is in Chicago, yes .
When I started with my old tailors , I remember , I would pick up these two little old twins in my truck in the mornings, many mornings, not all, and drive them to work. I had to lift Frank in. At the shop, plug in the iron and turn up the heat.The iron would tik. We didnt really talk. "Here. Look" that was about it. Around noon or so one of their wives would arrive with lunch and begin heating it on the iron. Louie Pisegnia might stop by with home made wine. In the afternoon old customers would start stopping by, most of them friends of both of my grand fathers. All of them old. My great grandfathers full dress pattern still hung in the shop. A photo of the Mayor , in one of their suits, shaking hands with John F. Kennedy, hung on the wall. The radio played old things. The old tailors couldnt pay me. In fact I mowed their lawns and tied up their tomatoes. And I had to thread their needles. I worked part time at my friends fathers construction co and I renovated an old four unit apt house on Grant Blvd across from Steigerwalds Butcher and The Change of Pace Saloon. The old tailors took so much time to show me. They couldnt believe I wanted to be a tailor. The grandson of two of their best customers wants to be a tailor ? I was never one to care to learn life from a book. They liked me around. I one time took them snagging salmon up on the salmon river with my friends. Here we are snagging 30 pound salmon up on the Salmon River in the redneck town of Port Ontario NY with two elegant little 87 year old twin tailors in handmade three piece suits yelling at each other in Italian. Even Fellini couldnt come up with this. I will never forget running with them ,as they held on to each other, into the woods when we saw the game wardens comming 'round the bend. They loved it. They never stopped talking about it. Soon after they lost their lease for the shop where they had been since the 1930s . I moved to NYC . These two old tailors are in all of my suits. I remember them most when I am pressing. All, all, all of the old men I learned from are gone. I feel sorry for Eric.

Thank you so much for such a deep sharing of experiences which are now precluded to many of us. There's so much to learn in this kind of attitude and passion for a lifelong learning path,
saluti

M.

[old henry]

I just want to say to Eric-Young -Tailor publicaly that it is not too late for him to learn this trade. He may have to spend a month here and a week there in Italy or NYC or go spend a few days with Joe Vericot in Florida. Lenny in NYC Chris in Chicago. I will give you patterns. . show you what ever I can. I have great blocks. you can have then. It is up to yopu Eric. The knowledge is out there in the world. You have to tap into it. No tailor will tell you - no I will not shaow you.. You have to try and try and do it wrong and do it wrong.. then when you are shown the right way the knowledge slips irght into your hands and brain. Where there is a will there is a way and it would pay off handsomely one day anf you would love it.. So. get up and do it. Its up to you.You can get a customer and make him a coat and post the photos of the fittings and one of us tailors can tell you what you must do. Its Doable. Ill give you the patterns. Post photos of the customer in his shirt from all angles and send them to us and we will tell you how to manipulate the pattern to his shape.. Get Tailoring Techniques by Roberto Cabrerra and read it and do the stuff. You can do this. We will help you. No more nonsence. ok . this is a way to use technology to to keep old ways. Shattuck.

[Merc]

Perhaps you can see why I get so angry when worthy, tough, good old cloths are discontinued .

also you take handmade to the utmost...as a result it makes sense that you dont want to work with flimsy cloth that will wear out in fewer hours than you put into the suit's cosntruction

[old henry]

Thats right merc. And also you can see why i do not like arrogant, disrespectful customers. They taint everything. FS