Lesson Learned

[mmkn2]

A tip for the younger men out there: If you dress for women the only thing you will be taking home at night is . . .

Cheers

M Alden

Hmmm , from Giovanni [Gianni] Agnelli himself here, "I really loved everything beautiful in life. And a beautiful woman is the most beautiful thing of all."

Mr. Agnelli, to me, alongside with Mr. Gary Cooper, are two men in photographed history who have the perfect balance of dressing for themselves, for other men, and for women . . . Thus, their iconic status.

- M

[Bishop of Briggs]

The lesson from, the subject in the original photos, is that a lot of continental men dress poorly. You can get the same look in Herbie Frogg in Jermyn Street (before it closes down) and lots of average RTW retailers. And he needs a haircut!

[Costi]

Excellent remark, Sartorialist! The same is said about writing - a writer should never try to create a character that is smarter than himself.

And I can't help but wonder, was that jibe meant for me

Dear Sartorialist,
Absolutely not! I meant you were right about the mistake of trying to use dress to create a character that one is not in reality, and remembered something similar is said about writers who try to create fictional characters that outsmart them - which is, of course, impossible and therefore doomed to fail. I see now how my words may be misunderstood, but I assure you there was no double entendre in my remark, though you are right not to judge my statements at face value always

I did certainly notice Uppercase's record number of posts compared to my paltry entries, though I must have let my naivety get in the way when I thought he was seeking genuine guidance!

Your entries are not paltry at all - they are interesting and appreciated. Good questions are more important than good answers. What I meant was that, in this particular case, I would not take Uppercase's plea for guidance too literally. Nevertheless, your answer was excellent in itself and I would have given the same advice to anyone truly seeking guidance.

I look forward to your posts and enjoy them very much. I hope you are enjoying the company in the LL, too

I'm off to dinner, but wouldn't leave before clarifying the meaning of my words - I would not forgive myself if they shadowed anyone's joy tonight. Merry Christmas everyone!

[dopey]

One lesson is that Italian sports car companies make excellent accessories.
Another is that a dark solid tie paired with a dark suit and a light colored shirt is sometimes dull but usually elegant. If you don't approach dress as a hobby for its own enjoyment, you would do very well by simply adopting that formula, buying your clothing from good makers who will make sure it fits and spending your mental efforts on other pursuits.

But that wouldn't be much fun, at least not for me.

To see this look done well, look for this man in his youth:

I am thinking of the party scene in Breakfast at Tiffany's in particular.
I happen to like the look above as well.

[Greger]

This picture is a pretty good illustration of the tailors art. Is he a better tailor than the cutter is a cutter? He is doing more than construction- He is an artist. Some have that touch and some do not, and some are way better than others. technically, if he has none, then he is not a tailor, for tailoring is an art. A true cutter is an artist, too.

[Gruto]

...

[Bishop of Briggs]

...

I hope that comment means that you are enjoying a Christmas glass of champagne!

[2025899]

Is this what we think of when we think rastaquère?

[uppercase]

Italian style with German efficiency.

Mr. Winkelmann that is, not Lamborghini. On second thought, maybe both.

CEO of the world’s raciest motorcar company at just 40, a German raised in Rome, 14 year Fiat veteran, tall, lanky, successful, he dresses just as one would imagine.

I suspect that he would be easy to pick out of a line-up if you were asked to choose the ‘Lamborghini CEO’.

I have to assume that his dress accurately expresses his personality and his dress announces him without surprise.

Winkelmann’s dress is suitable for himself, though not for me; I could not wear suits along those lines though I would not criticize them.

The object of ‘lessons’ is to better learn what works for oneself, not to criticize others’ choices; there would be nothing to be gained from that.

I have a few suits which are similarly racy and tightly sculpted. And a few high necked, spread collars. Nothing wrong with them. They just don’t express my personality nor make me feel well dressed. I rarely wear them now though they are somehow striking and there may be the right occasion now and then.

They were made for me though they are not ‘me’. I didn’t know that at the time. That’s part of the learning process, which continues.

Along with Dopey, I find Winkelmann’s dress elegant. Yes, it seems to be a bit formulaic given the various occasions in which he photoed wearing the same uniform. Still, it is elegant.

It would be a mistake to describe Winkelmann’s dress as ‘Italian’, though it is how some Italians dress. And then there are others who dress differently. Truly, Italy, a nation of individuals.

[alden]

Uppercase,

The clear, positive lesson is a good one, find your own style. Discover who you are, and then dress yourself like the person you discover.

I would have to say that there is nothing even remotely elegant about this individual’s dress. And the comparison to Mr Agnelli is extravagant. I hope he is not spinning too many RPMs in his grave.

But the posting of these pictures actually serves a greater purpose to the extent that it illustrates a few fundamentals.

In a recent DWS video, and in many writings here, I talked about the importance of the shirt, collar, and tie combination and described them as the main actors of style. Mr W’s actors have let him down. They are camp, B players at best. But the players are not to blame for they are merely serving their master, he who cast them.

Do compare the relaxed look of Agnelli, the sober, well cut shirt collar, the undimpled tie. These are the signs of equity, not just ownership, for the traces go back generations.

If you will read this passage, my critique will become more clear:

The species of Fop that interests us with respect to a discussion of elegance is known in our argot as "Charlie.". His intense desire, his wanting so badly to appear, to belong, to be something, makes him a notorious pretender and notable arriviste. Ambition and ego are his ultimate undoing.

Costi picked up the same feeling from the photos of this man and noted that he was “lying.” The intense “will to appear” is evident in his dress. He wants desperately to be something he is not. And it is therefore “affectation” that eliminates any chance of elegance.


Cheers

M Alden

[uppercase]

I am glad to see that Mr. Winkelmann’s dress is generating some debate which will help us flesh out our own individual ideas about taste, style and elegance.

What’s clear is that dress can convey very strong impressions and that small details can make or break a man in the eyes of others.

It’s equally clear that most here on LL don’t like the cut of this man’s jib.

I chose Winkelmann’s photos because while he dresses conventionally for business, details are exaggerated. He appears Italian in dress, or what is conventionally understood as such, and is often dismissed as ‘continental’ in the Anglo Saxon world of dress.

Ofcourse we know that there are many Italian sartorial heroes and we collectively admire them for their subtlety, panache and sophisticated use of color and texture, yet remain ever ready to revile them for their sense of drama and individuality.

Yet, when done well, no one dresses better or more stylishly than the Italians.

Now, returning to Mr. Winkelmann, his dress, while remarkable, reminds me of a quote found in The Leopard by di Lampedusa where The Prince comments on the dress of the mayor of the village of Donnafugata in the interior of Sicily, where The Prince maintains a palace and whose mayor has now (1860s) vastly exceeded The Prince in wealth and power. The Prince has invited the mayor for dinner in his palace and is dressed in ‘afternoon dress’ while his guest, the mayor, arrives in ‘evening dress’. As The Prince waits to receive his guest, the Mayor, such is written:

“His (the Prince) distress was great; it still lasted as he moved mechanically toward the door to receive his guest. When he saw him, however, his agonies were somewhat eased. Though perfectly adequate as a political demonstration, it was obvious that, as tailoring, Don Calogero’s (the mayor) tailcoat was a disastrous failure. The material was excellent, the style modern, but the cut quite appalling. The Word from London had been most inadequately made flesh by a tailor from Girgenti to whom Don Calogero had gone in his tenacious avarice. The tails of his coat pointed straight to heaven in mute supplication, his huge collar was shapeless, and, what is more, the Mayor’s feet were shod in buttoned boots.”

Perhaps Mr. Winkelmann's dress reminds esteemed members of the LL of Don Calogero though I am not to judge.

[alden]

UC

I suggest you spend a moment to digest some of Carpu65’s posts and especially those that speak about the duality of Italian fashion: the look made for export, for tourists who wish to "appear" Italian and that made and worn by Italians themselves.

An Italian born tall, lanky and geeky looking would be taught, educated to wear clothes that suit his physique and personality. On the other hand, a German tourist trying desperately to look Italian will fall prey to the export Italian fashion variant and you have been generous enough to supply damning photographic proof of its stylistic inefficiency.

If we can leave the tourist trap Italian fashion aside for a moment, let’s try to define real Italian style. That colossal work of scholarship can not be achieved in a few lines for real Italian fashion is as complex and varied as Italy itself. Il Gattopardo is one lesson among millions of lines scrawled by literary genius’s of all backgrounds, colors and nationalities covering nearly all of our recorded history. There is no one Italy and there is no one Italian fashion or style. And if we are attracted to the country, its culture and people, it is because she always finds a way to intrigue our curiosity and tantalize our desire to experience deeply.

I try to write with objectivity about my adopted country. But I am smitten and it is not a terribly well hidden secret. The last thirty five years of my life have been spent scouring every square inch of the peninsula, and for the last twelve years I have been a part time resident. When I have a free moment, I search out artisans of all kinds and have done so in almost every nook and cranny for decades. The country and its people have been generous enough to tolerate me and I hope they do so for a few more years.

That being said, and as much as I love their sartorial work, I cannot wear the clothes. Being tall, slim and geeky looking myself, the various styles of Italian dress turn to spoiled gorgonzola on my body. It’s only recently that I discovered, as Carpu65 relates, the affinity that Sicilian tailors have for English style (and that is not something to marvel at when you consider the English influence on modern Sicilian history.) Finally, I know Italian tailors that I can work with to make a style that is very similar to the one I learned on Savile Row and I am greatly honored to be their patron and client.

I would encourage all LL readers to imagine an Italy, Italians and Italian style that cannot be reduced to a formula that exists purely in the minds of visitors.

I will also continue to suggest that every man find his own style, the things that work best for you. Avoid the formulas and misunderstandings of fashion and you will enjoy dressing more. And you will be better at it. If you insist on wearing a style made for someone else and one that does not suit you, don't be surprised by the efficiency of the great barrier to style, affectation, that casts you into the abyss of the ridiculous.

Cheers,

M Alden

[alden]

UC

Here are a few more “icons” of style on parade from a Japanese Sartorialist knock-off dedicated to Italian dandys.

These new Agnellis and Astaires are modeling bespoke Bridgestone off road radial tractor tires around their waists. It's quite a look.

2009SS-1全身.jpg

2009SS-4全身.jpg

Their abdominal largesse does not stop them from wearing "fashionable" skin tight clothes. I am not sure if there isn’t something to be admired in all of this. These men clearly could care less that their obesity is on display to the world.

Maybe they have it right, is it a modern kind of sprezzatonno?

Cheers

M Alden

PS Once again the moral of the story is about harmonizing our dress with who we are. If you are short and fat or tall and skinny, skin tight clothes are not right for you (even if skin tight is the fashion of the day.)

[mmkn2]

my critique will become more clear:

The species of Fop that interests us with respect to a discussion of elegance is known in our argot as "Charlie." His intense desire, his wanting so badly to appear, to belong, to be something, makes him a notorious pretender and notable arriviste. Ambition and ego are his ultimate undoing.

Cheers

M Alden

I wonder is the same critique would be applied to this Italian style with Japanese passionate pursuit of perfection?



- M

[alden]

I wonder is the same critique would be applied to this Italian style with Japanese passionate pursuit of perfection?

Nothing remotely similar.

The Japanese man can be a most astute collector, assuming the best and leaving the rest.
They are great models for some of us.

Since I spend half my life in Japanese attire, I hope to have done my teachers honor.

Cheers

Michael