A Youngster's First Bespoke Experience in Asia

[JLibourel]

Welcome Ray...great to hear from a younger member...the watch forum I participate in used to have a 13 year old (he's now 21) who wrote fabulously, and up there discussing the finer points of watchmaking with us old folks, and I think all of us enjoyed the interaction. As I am sure we will with yours.

I am also about to start on a Hong Kong adventure myself...I will be visiting WW Chan tomorrow (I think they are literally upstairs of Sam's) to bespeak a DB, in grey chalkstripe. JLibourel, if you have specific tips on working with Patrick, I would greatly appreciate your hints.

Michael, the picture of the bearded man in the coat with chalk stripes looks wonderful. Can you tell us more about the fabric?

I may be too late in replying to this, as I suspect your visit may already have taken place. I have tended to go along with Patrick's ideas about cut and style and been very satisfied. I think what he has created for me has pretty much been based on their "house style." From what other people have posted on Style Forum about Chan, I think the closer you adhere to their house style (if that's what you can call it), the more likely you are to be satisfied. That's about all I can tell you. I assume from your name that you are Chinese and therefore should have fewer communication problems. Patrick has quite a good command of English, but it is rather heavily accented, and I, at least, find him a little hard to understand on occasion.

[pchong]

Thanks for your input. I went and had myself measured yesterday...selected a grey chalkstripe, English mill...13oz flannel with slight nap. I will be going for a first fitting tomorrow morning. I was very specific in my written instructions about what I wanted, notch height, lapel width, button stance and positions, shoulder, sleeve length. He took quite a lot of measurements - more than I was used with other bespoke efforts with other tailors. I also showed him pictures of a LL member whose coat I thought was wonderful. I went with a friend who was doing his 3rd fitting on his 6th Chan suit, and the coat for the fitting looked very nice - with drape, natural shoulders which I liked.

I feel quite good about this latest commission.

BTW, Ray, your pictures are a little small and dark, but the suit looks fine.

[edhayes]

Young man-your heart is in the right place but let me give you some of my thoughts. At your age, you are schooling yourself physically, mentally and in character. There are times and places for costumes and you must avoid overdoing it-its ok to take on airs so long as you are not too serious about it. Never let a hat compensate for shoulders-that is why there are gyms.
Clothes make more men into fools then they make men.
You must dress consistently with your life-think about where you go to school, what your interests are, how your father and his friends dressed, how the people you admire dress. You are too young for rope shoulders and you should not be wearing a fedora except under special conditions-the other young man looks more real in a newsboy cap.
It is clear that you are bright and observant, you cut an elegant figure and the girls in the picture with you bring you credit.
Nonetheless, your first thoughts should be of restraint and to attract the attention of men of accomplishment for your capacity for the future.

[Incroyable]

Dear sir, why do you think he is too young for roped soulders? As for the other points of schooling yourself, I quite agree with, however, it seems if he prefers roped shoulders or a doube-breasted jacket then they are simply his inclinations. Rather, it would be like discouraging someone with an active interest in photography to say they are too young for Helmut Newton.

I don't know about fedoras and newspaper boys hats but considering he doesn't abstain from the habit it must mean he is quite comfortable donning one.

[preobrazhensky]

EdHayes, I fully understand your point yet I feel it is a little harsh. You are right that he looks out of synch with his peers and his environment, but I am sure that he too is well aware of this. From his explanation it seems that he commissioned this suit largely as an experiment, and it may prove to be a fruitful one if from it he crystallises his idea of what he is really looking for. He has started very early and so has plenty of time to refine the notion of his personal style, presence and attitude.
I am young myself (24) and feel at odds with the trends of youth "culture" (by which I refer not only to dressing), and as an antidote I think a spot of well placed anachronism is often welcome so long as it does not stray too far towards affectation. And we can all agree that the route Rover has chosen is far preferable to the flashy alternative taken by most of the Dior-clad youngsters who have a penchant for dressing up.
Also, a 16 year-old having developed an appreciation of Bogart in our times is certainly very encouraging! May I recommend 'In a Lonely Place' as my favourite of his movies, if anyone hasn't seen it; aside from its grand artistic merits Gloria Grahame sports some very seductive and beautiful outfits.

[DFR]

These comments are quite ungracious and also unwarranted and wrong.

Ray has set out to develop a certain style which is his. He has determined that it is appropriate in the environemnt in which he lives and he has the obvious maturity to carry his chosen style.

To say therefore that he is too yopung for roped shoulders or a fedora is a clear impertinence and the implications of your words about clothes and fools all too clear.


May I suggest that you withdraw and admire Ray for his attempts to detremine his life style - of which you know nothing - without sheepishly folowing the herd?

Young man-your heart is in the right place but let me give you some of my thoughts. At your age, you are schooling yourself physically, mentally and in character. There are times and places for costumes and you must avoid overdoing it-its ok to take on airs so long as you are not too serious about it. Never let a hat compensate for shoulders-that is why there are gyms.
Clothes make more men into fools then they make men.
You must dress consistently with your life-think about where you go to school, what your interests are, how your father and his friends dressed, how the people you admire dress. You are too young for rope shoulders and you should not be wearing a fedora except under special conditions-the other young man looks more real in a newsboy cap.
It is clear that you are bright and observant, you cut an elegant figure and the girls in the picture with you bring you credit.
Nonetheless, your first thoughts should be of restraint and to attract the attention of men of accomplishment for your capacity for the future.

[TVD]

Ray

Sometimes wisdom is bitter. I appreciate what Ed Hayes wrote very much, because while his comment may sound harsh, it is in fact full of kindness. It places good advice above being liked.

Much of what he wrote one can only understand after committing the mistakes (if they can be termed such) he advised to avoid. I am sure his intention was not to make you feel uneasy, but to help you avoid falling into a trap that most of us who love clothes have fallen into at some stage or another.

Stay true to your creed, but also never forget the reactions you will elicit from others, at least as long as you care about them.

TVD

[Incroyable]

I don't think you should dress according to other's tastes or what you may think their reactions are.

If you like Berluti's violet shoes, fine. If you are inclined to three-pieces, there should be no problem.

[DFR]

I don't think you should dress according to other's tastes or what you may think their reactions are.

If you like Berluti's violet shoes, fine. If you are inclined to three-pieces, there should be no problem.

Whilst to ask advice of one another is the purpose of this circle (with a personal choice whether to accept it or not) to preech rectitude as Ed Hayes does in entirely unaceptable..

[jcusey]

Whilst to ask advice of one another is the purpose of this circle (with a personal choice whether to accept it or not) to preech rectitude as Ed Hayes does in entirely unaceptable..

No, I don't agree at all. Ed Hayes's advice is wise and useful, and there is not a thing in what he has written that is ungentlemanly.

[Mr. Rover]

Thanks for the support, guys. I fully understand what angle edhayes is coming from and what his concerns might be for me and my future. I will have him know that my grades are quite solid, my interests (outside of classical clothing) are just as varied, and my character- well, I'm still going to parties around here, if that's what you're concerned with. My friends and peers have been quite accepting of my mode of dress and it isn't a problem for me. For them, my personality supercedes my clothing.
Just so you know, the girls in that picture happen to be family, so that credit isn't really due.

You are too young for rope shoulders and you should not be wearing a fedora except under special conditions-the other young man looks more real in a newsboy cap.

I have been wearing fedoras for a little over a year and a half, and am quite comfortable in them. The hat in those photos is quite an ugly, old hat, as it is my travel "Indiana Jones" hat. After reviewing those pictures, I undestand your concern for my sartorial preferences in terms of headwear. I have a small collection of 6 hats, 2 of which I rotate regularly. Also, that newsboy cap happens to be mine and I loaned it to my friend in that photograph for the evening. That suit he is wearing is also from Sam's. I personally think their house style suited him much more.
I'm not sure what you mean by more "real", though, Mr. hayes. Wouldn't you say a homburg or a bowler would be more suited for those "special occassions"? A fedora is a day-to-day hat, and that is how I wear them.

Here in the Taiwan, there has been an overwhelming desire to be dressed with pants around their thighs, oversized t-shirts, baseball caps, designer everything, etc. I felt that I really didn't want to be associated with that "hip hop designer fad" crowd and have found much more solid and classic alternatives. I have no desire to dress or act like them.



When I said roped shoulders, I meant more or else along these lines. I didn't mean like 30's college boy with giant quasi-football player shoulders like you see in ads from thoe days. That would just look way disproportional on me. Although that doesn't mean I don't have one like that (although I don't wear it often at all):

Thanks for your input. I went and had myself measured yesterday...selected a grey chalkstripe, English mill...13oz flannel with slight nap.

That sounds like an awesome combination- I was originally intending mine to be made out of flannel, but I don't think that Sam's Tailor had the right weights I was looking for.

Also, a 16 year-old having developed an appreciation of Bogart in our times is certainly very encouraging! May I recommend 'In a Lonely Place' as my favourite of his movies, if anyone hasn't seen it; aside from its grand artistic merits Gloria Grahame sports some very seductive and beautiful outfits.

I'll make sure to check it out! Of late, I've found Myrna Loy in "The Thin Man" to strike a chord with me.


We were both dressed period (albeit different periods) and she wanted to take a picture. I'll explain the toilets some other time.

Sorry about the long winded post, and I hope the pictures helped to divide it up a little more. I'm kind of a perfectionist, and sometimes, my own appearance is all I can control in a day. Anyway, I must make a rehearsal now, and we can continue discussing my future and all of its possibilities some other time!

[preobrazhensky]

It appears none of us need have worried. My original concern was that Ed Hayes's post, though rich in wisdom (as others have pointed out), was in tone a little too cutting for a fragile teenage ego. I apologise to him as clearly this tone was better judged than mine, refusing as he did to condescend to such a remarkably well-adjusted young man.
Rover has proved absolutely capable of making his own case. Good luck to both of you.

[Mr. Rover]

Well, I finally found some time to take some legitimate pictures of this lovely suit. They were taken with indoor lighting, so pardon the grain. My 2.0 megapixel camera tends to take better closeups than wide shots in bad lighting, so bear with me.


The full wide shot- I am aware of the lack of linen showing. The shirt has shrunken in the wash and meets right at my wrist. I actually think the sleeves could've been 1/4"-1/2" shorter on the jacket. Is it just me or is the jacket a little long, too?


Closeup of the higher v-closure that I like for the longer collars and smaller knots.


I think the shoulders feel a bit too wide, and there is a bit of bunching on the right side.


I don't really understand why there is such a long cord attached to the interior button.
My vintage jackets have buttons fastened with a regular amount of shank.


The back of the jacket.


Side shot of pants

Front shot of pants. They still seem a little bit low to me, and it's not because of the tie.


Sidestraps


Closeup of fabric

ray

[fabrics]

Excellent, Mr. Rover, I enjoyed reading your topic.

Have you a good tailor in Taipei?

[Connemara]

Mr. Rover,

What a great post. I too am of the younger set (17 years), and seeing someone in my age bracket experiencing bespoke makes me smile. Very encouraging.

For me, bespoke is still a bit down the road, but that doesn't mean I can't increase my knowledge base and plan for it. I fear that my hunger for bespoke isn't going away anytime soon. I doubt my future wallet will approve of the addiction!

Keep the dream alive...there is hope for our generation!

-Mike