The Myth of the Soft Shoulder

[alden]

Here is a little look book with David, Uppercase and yours truly. Study the photos and choose the look that fits YOUR STYLE the best.

Cheers

[alden]

"Who is it said round, natural shoulders are effeminate...step up and say it to my face, if you can stop your knees from quakin long enough to do it!"





Cheers

[mafoofan]

I like soft. Sure, I think it has as much to do with the feel as the look--but you look better when when you feel good. Anyway, here is a soft shoulder example for your consideration:



I don't think I'd look as good if the shoulders were more structured. I'm broad and square enough there as it is.

[Gruto]

here is a soft shoulder example for your consideration.

That is a very nice jacket. It has a lot of good Italian shape, and the soft shoulders look just right for you. In regard to garments and accessories, I'm not that fond of the combination. I don't think the jacket do well with the trousers, and I'm paralyzed by the brown driving gloves

[alden]

Matt,

That is a lovely jacket. I suspect the camera worked against you and the trousers are a lighter shade of gray. We need to hire Tommy Ton full time.

On another subject, I would really like to see you wear a sleek brown, round toe oxford shoe with this ensemble. The blucher shoes are great with heavy tweeds, cords or cavalry twills, but their sheer size overpowers you. I have trouble wearing bluchers myself because of overly large feet. I try to keep to oxfords when I can.

Cheers

Michael

[radicaldog]

I fully agree with the original poster. I have learned this the hard way.

[Costi]

Others learned the soft way...

[alden]

I have learned this the hard way.

RD

Tell us more...what did you learn?

[radicaldog]

Well, I liked the theory of the soft and round shoulder: relaxed, informal, etc. After all I am an academic and don't even need to wear tailored clothing. In fact I rarely wear suits, though I wear a sportcoat most days. Anyway, after a few rather unsuccessful bespoke experiments with a very soft and rounded shoulder (against the advice of my tailor) I realised that due to my small frame and narrow sloped shoulders I need some extension and some padding. I still don't go for squared shoulders, but I think my optimum is a moderately structured but definitely extended shoulder, like what we see in most of Agnelli's photos -- be it Caraceni or Huntsman. I do have one mid-weight half-lined coat with an extended but completely unpadded shoulder that looks OK to me, but I wouldn't adopt it as my default silhouette. In the end whether a certain cut works on a person also depends on the cloth. Mafoofan and Alden look great in their soft shoulders, and I wish I could look that way, but I just don't have the physique. It's a shame because the design philosophy of soft garments appeals to me, but in the end I think that the overall effect should take priority over the meaning one may or may not attach to certain stylistic choices. I hope that wasn't too idiosyncratic.

[medtech_expat]

This was the final fitting of my most recent acquisition in Naples a few weeks ago. The shoulder is completely unpadded, and the shoulder line was extended slightly from earlier commissions. The sleeves have since been shortened a touch, but overall I've been rather pleased with the fit and silhouette. My tailor wants to go a bit shorter on the coat length - what do you think? I'd welcome any comments and constructive feedback, as I'm still a bespoke novice but feel that I've made the transition for good.

[radicaldog]

For what it's worth, I would leave the coat length alone but I would add a bit of padding, as your shoulders could perhaps benefit from less of a sloping line. Overall the suit fits well -- and I'm not even a big fan of Neapolitan style. I would also drop the Windsor knot (affected), but that's a rather subjective judgment, of course.

[couch]

I agree that the coat length is short enough. If you have the jacket properly seated in the photos, and if that shirt collar is typical of your stock, I would bring the jacket collar up in the center back slightly. It looks like you are showing at least an inch of shirt collar and the jacket collar line is not quite matching the curvature of the shirt collar--it's a little flat in the center. I prefer to show about half an inch of shirt collar above the jacket in back. This is a small point, and partly a matter of personal preference.

Should you make this adjustment, the angular or sloping visual effect of the jacket collar+shoulder line may be slightly more pronounced, depending on how vertically the collar stands at the sides (if it's more vertical it would break the line more). This may influence the degree of your interest in adding padding to lessen the shoulder slope a bit as RD suggests. Personally, I don't find the current slope excessive seen from the front, and only borderline from the rear.

[alden]

My tailor wants to go a bit shorter on the coat length - what do you think? I'd welcome any comments and constructive feedback, as I'm still a bespoke novice but feel that I've made the transition for good.

Medtech

Regarding the coat length, let the tailor have his way on the next one. It could be a ditta shorter (about 1 cm, and no more.)

The overall presentation is very good. I would suggest narrowing the lapels on the coat a bit. It will give the suit more style longevity. If you outgrow Neapolitan, the wide lapels will seem odd to you. The secret is to take the best that your talented tailor has to offer and leave the styling idiosyncrasies in Naples.

Is this a 2b front coat? I seem to see a buttonhole on the lapel. The idea of a 3b that “rolls through” is that it can be buttoned and used. Many Italian tailors simply make a 2b front coat and then cut a buttonhole into the lapel. In my view, this approach should be avoided. The suit you are wearing looks great as a 2b front, so you might ask the tailor to forgo the cosmetic third button and buttonhole on the next coat. It is another styling quirk from Naples that can be dispensed with.

I agree with Couch that the collar of the coat seems to be riding low or the shirt’s collar is high. One of the tricks of bespoke is getting our various makers to work in tandem to make clothes that work best together. In this regards you are the general contractor that has to oversee the plans and build. I suspect, in this case that the shirt collar is on the high side. The tailor has given you a standard collar stand. If he had made a higher one, it would call more attention to the slope of your shoulders. As it is, the slope of your shoulders is borderline, but fine.

I think the shirt collar and tie knot is the greatest weakness in this look. Study carefully other styles of collars and find one with less overt personality. You want people to look at your face, not your tie. The collar might be a bit more closed, and with tie space to accommodate any knot you wish to tie.

Cheers

Michael Alden

[alden]

but in the end I think that the overall effect should take priority over the meaning one may or may not attach to certain stylistic choices.

RD

That is part of what we call finding your own style. You can’t wedge yourself into something that does not work for you even if it works perfectly well for others. This is a central theme of the LL and is well developed in this thread. There is no one solution, thank goodness.

Ideally finding one’s style is a pleasant process but it has some challenges.

Cheers

Michael

[dopey]

. . .

Is this a 2b front coat? I seem to see a buttonhole on the lapel. The idea of a 3b that “rolls through” is that it can be buttoned and used. Many Italian tailors simply make a 2b front coat and then cut a buttonhole into the lapel. In my view, this approach should be avoided. The suit you are wearing looks great as a 2b front, so you might ask the tailor to forgo the cosmetic third button and buttonhole on the next coat. It is another styling quirk from Naples that can be dispensed with.
. . .

I believe you are Californian so it can be forgiven, but if you were American you wouldn't have said that.