Going Belt-less

[rguion]

On a recent trip to Venanzi in New York, I took a look at their trousers to get some ideas about how I might like my own trousers made (my tailor suggested I try as many as I could before settling on the design details of the ones he will make). They were decent but did not come with brace buttons. They can easily be added, but I wondered why they were not there to start with. How will the trousers stay put without braces? Can trousers stay put without braces? The associate explained that while the tailor could certainly add brace buttons, these trousers need not be worn with braces: they don’t move. Of course, my first thought was this cannot be. My second thought was how dare Venanzi put an associate on the floor who’s first instinct (or instructed response) is to misinform. At any rate, I simply smiled and asked to try on a coat, deciding to present the issue to LL.

Some of this has been covered before, but it seems worth a kind of central posting. What must a man consider when going belt-less?

Side note: I am interested in the trouser Alan Flusser attributes to Anderson & Sheppard on p. 168 of Style and the Man. I’m not in a position to scan the page and include the photograph, but I can describe them: the extension waistband extends as far as the side seam pocket and is secured with a d-ring/buckle, and there is an adjuster in the back; they are pleated in the English way. Is the design reserved for sport/odd trousers, or do they also use it in suits. Does anyone have a pair or can say something about them? I’m leaning in this direction for my trousers because they are unusual.

[dopey]

Well-made beltless trousers will often stay put without braces or belt if they are cut to fit you and your waistline is indeed narrower than your hips. In that case, the narrowness at the waist will catch on the curves of your hips and buttocks and the trousers won’t fall. If you no longer retain that anatomical proportion or you prefer your trousers loose at the waist than braces are needed. Perhaps the Venanzi associate recognized your slim waist or was flattering you rather than was merely misinformed.

[rguion]

Dopey, can trousers be altered to accomplish this? At the moment, my waist and hips are almost twins, so I will need some slimming to go belt-less and brace-less.

[dopey]

Dopey, can trousers be altered to accomplish this? At the moment, my waist and hips are almost twins, so I will need some slimming to go belt-less and brace-less.

I am not an expert on the alteration process nor do I look carefully at the construction of RTW trousers, but if the trousers you are looking at have darts to shape the seat and make the waistline narrower than the hips and seat, then I assume you could have the darts deepened and the waist taken in. Perhaps you can have darts added if they aren’t already there.

[rguion]

Dopey, can trousers be altered to accomplish this?

I am not an expert on the alteration process nor do I look carefully at the construction of RTW trousers, but if the trousers you are looking at have darts to shape the seat and make the waistline narrower than the hips and seat, then I assume you could have the darts deepened and the waist taken in. Perhaps you can have darts added if they aren’t already there.

Many thanks dopey. Perhaps I'll ask to see the in-house tailor next time and give him a chance to shed some light.

[Mark Seitelman]

Regular trousers can stay put without braces if the waist is tapered and is snug.

[rguion]

Quoting Manton's Why Custom article from the CTDA website:

Trousers seem easy to fit, but in fact are the hardest of all. They seem easy because 99% of ready-to-wear trousers are cut incorrectly, to ride down at the hips. But this is a bad look for all save the very young and very slim. Nonetheless, they are cut this way because the ready-to-wear industry knows that trousers cut to worn at the waist will slip to the hips if they are not cut perfectly. And since they cannot be cut perfectly ready-to-wear, it is best to just cut them to the hips in the first place. But proper trousers are cut to be worn at the waist. These present a more pleasing silhouette, lengthening the leg line, covering the gut, and emphasizing the chest and upper body. Good custom tailors know how to cut waist-rise trousers that don’t slip.

Every RTW trouser I've ever worn with belt needed to be readjusted/pulled up a number of times during the day as the body changes when sitting, then standing, driving, eating, etc. My RTW trousers worn with braces stayed in the exact same place. My guess is if RTW trousers were fitted to stay put without belt while standing, they would not be very comfortable at some point during the day. I imagine loosening and tightening side adjusters or self-belts a few times at least. [/i]

[Richard3]

Most of my trousers, RTW or custom, beltless or with loops, are cut to be worn at the waist. I have never had any problems with slipping.