First bespoke suit: Firenze via Ōsaka

[alden]

Run for your sartorial life.

Frank, run where? It's not that easy to have a sartorial life if you do not have tailors anymore.

Cheers

[ggreen]

Dear Bird,

I've never had an experience where I didn't pay for a commission. In this case I would ask for my money back. I am very sorry to say this as I am sure it is a disappointing experience for you. It looks like the suit is made for someone else. Not a matter of details like button stance or shoulders a bit narrow.

Greg

[old henry]

Hugo Boss or Hickey Freeman off the rack is one thousand times better. And I have never been more serious. Walk away now. Never even walk past that shop again. Don’t even look down that street.

[ggreen]

Frank can do a super solid suit by skype. We can still run there.

Greg

[BirdofSydney]

Gents,

I am very grateful for your feedback, and your bluntness.

I feel very foolish for making the second payment: I did so not wanting to offend, but Old Henry’s comments align with my own feelings that the suit is almost unwearable. Certainly, it is a lot less flattering than my RTW suits that were half the price.

Strangely, most of the other work I’ve seen out of the same shop looks pretty good, although admittedly they tend to photograph coats on mannequins rather than customers. Perhaps that is the rub.

I am uncertain how to go about asking for my money back, leaving aside the cultural dimension. I can’t very well say that I’ve consulted the LL brains trust and they’ve condemned the garment with press’d thumb. But I see no point in collecting a garment that I won’t wear.

Mr Alden, may I ask why you think an English/American cut will suit me better? If it is relevant, and although you can’t see under the coat, I have quite narrow and sloped shoulders, but then fairly big hips and thighs. I’ve always gravitated to Italian coats as better hugging my shoulders, and flattering my midsection with open quarters.

Best,

Bird

[old henry]

English/ American/Neapolitan. None of this comes into play. That’s cut and style. This suit from A to Zink is ridiculous. Preposterous. And that is a direct slam on those bullshit artists in that bullshit shop. To pawn that off of a nice fella as I’m sure you are. A new , unsuspecting customer. Cancel the transaction. RTW all the way.

[BirdofSydney]

Regarding asking for a refund, might the etiquette be to offer to indemnify the cost of the cloth? I don’t feel like I should have to, but I am a deal maker by instinct and vocation so it might be a start.

Failing that, I suppose that I might have to have a word to the chaps at Amex...

[old henry]

They know enough to know that it is a bad bad job. However you wrap it up, do so right away and start anew. Clean slate. I’m glad I saw this post.

[old henry]

Pants look like they’re on backwards. Get you money back.

[BirdofSydney]

Once again, I truly appreciate your bluntness! Shall we call it New York charm?

Seriously though, I feel a great deal better to know that I am not going crazy here. I’ll take a firm stance and see where I get.

I hope the feeling of ‘once bitten, twice shy’ passes: the inclination is very much to flee back to RTW, not least because my home of Australia is essentially devoid of tailors, save for a handful of postwar Italian immigrants, whose style is perfectly suited to their octogenarian clientele (and I say this without meaning any disrespect).

I guess I’d better start saving for a plane ticket...

[old henry]

Give the old octogenarian tailors a try. Anyone lucky enough to have post war Italian Tailors in there town should get it while they can. It’s an education in charm waiting to happen. Can’t do worse than these con men.

[ggreen]

Dear Bird,

Don't get discouraged. My first experience was with a NYC "bespoke" British "maker". I didn't know then what was what. He charged me an arm and a leg. I was disappointed and couldn't even tell what exactly was wrong with the coat other than that it was way too long. Certainly didn't help my 5'7" frame. Unlike yours it was just ok. I never went back and started a search. Get your money back if you can. Amex is always on customer's side.
Since you like Florentine style I would without hesitation suggest Sartoria Seminara. Gianni Seminara visits Japan, I believe twice a year. He made me an overcoat with 2 fittings that's just great. You are in competent hands. He makes in understated style rather that trying to sell you "Florentine style". You may have to ask for a higher pant rise than he would normally make.

Greg

[alden]

Mr Alden, may I ask why you think an English/American cut will suit me better? If it is relevant, and although you can’t see under the coat, I have quite narrow and sloped shoulders, but then fairly big hips and thighs. I’ve always gravitated to Italian coats as better hugging my shoulders, and flattering my midsection with open quarters.

English/ American/Neapolitan. None of this comes into play. That’s cut and style. This suit from A to Zink is ridiculous. Preposterous. And that is a direct slam on those bullshit artists in that bullshit shop. To pawn that off of a nice fella as I’m sure you are. A new , unsuspecting customer.

Bird,

This suit has serious fit issues and Frank's summary is spot on. So let's leave that suit and hope you can do something to repair the loss.

My comment suggesting another cut had to do with style. I know Florentine tailoring pretty well. Here I am with a true Florentine Master discussing one of our favorite topics....good cloth! Take a good look at his elegant blue three piece suit. Is it Italian-typed? Or would it make any Savile Row cutter blush with envy?

RIMG0323 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

The suit I see you in does not look Florentine to me, it looks Neapolitan. And Neapolitan tailoring, if done well or poor, is for Neapolitans. It has an almost ethnic, Baroque charm to it like a Stetson on a Texan in Waco. It works in its environment.

Like the great Florentines and Romans, the old time Neapolitan tailors cut sober Anglo-Saxon suits because that is what their Latin clients aspired to...to be BRIT. Why do you think Rubinacci's father named his shop "LONDON HOUSE?" London House and London style tailoring made the fame of Naples. But the new Rubinacci, the sly fox, has since changed the name and erased his past, his "real" heritage under the sprayed on gold leaf brand of "Neapolitan." And now it is Londoners aspiring to be Neapolitans! Go figure.

I think a very sober, understated but strong, classically elegant ie Anglo/American suit (that fits you, made by someone who knows what they are doing) would be best for your look. (But above all it has to fit you before it can suit you.) I say that because I have never seen the strong Italianate typed style look good on anyone other than Italian locals or some very rare Asians. It looks horrid on me, so I have first hand experience ! My two Italian tailors make clothing that is more Savile Row and Brooks Bros than SR or BB. That is what suits me and in my opinion what would suit you too.

[old henry]

My final advice is to get a suit from each of the old Tailors in your town.

[BirdofSydney]

Henry: I have been tempted to commission something from the gent who does my alterations, more for the experience than the product. His style tends to favour a sleeve somewhere approaching the knuckle and...shoulder pads. Although alterations are always faithfully executed to my instructions, I suspect that I would be stretching the friendship to ask for a suit in proportions that appealed to me.

Alden: I think I understand what you are saying. Certainly, I prefer a coat that lacks the ostentation of ‘fashionable’ Neapolitan tailors. I do not find Ring Jacket’s styling to be ostentatious, and before that I wore Borrelli, which was likewise not over-styled (overpriced, perhaps, but that’s another story...)

I suppose that what I think of as Italian style is the 3-roll-2, open quarters, and barely padded shoulders and sleeveheads. As well as a certain proportion in the coat.

But, I shall start re-reading the LL archives in depth, and re-educating myself.

GGreen: an intriguing prospect - I will definitely look into it!

All: I cannot thank you enough. It’s been a mildly traumatic couple of days, crashing from the anticipation of a long-held dream being fulfilled, to the disappointment and embarrassment of a badly failed venture. I am grateful for your virtual companionship!