Advice wanted: re-building a wardrobe

[uppercase]

Tommy & Giulio Caraceni in Rome, 61B Via Campania, a 10 minute walk from the USA Embassy on Via Veneto, are the best tailors I have been to. This includes tailors in Naples, Milan, London, Hong Kong, and elsewhere. If I could easily travel to Rome regularly, they would certainly be my exclusive tailor.

If you are in Rome, do yourself a favor and have a suit made by Caraceni Roma.

Now, back to Mariano’s projects, if I understand correctly, Mariano is now currently working with 5 tailors - Frank Shattuck (posting as Old Henry here on London Lounge) out of New York, John Kent - London, Edwin DeBoise (Steed Tailors) - Cumbria/London, Graham Browne-London, and Langa - Madrid.

Since the posts have now turned to a discussion of tailoring techniques, hand padding the chest of a jacket, and other minutiae, remember that Mariano is here asking for advice on re-building a wardrobe, starting out with bespoke tailors.... my question would be then, :
should a client get into this level of detail with his tailors?, should it matter?, should a client first interview his tailor about the amount of hand/machine work?, hours devoted to making a suit, whether tailors do the sewing work on or off site, do tailors work exclusively for one firm, etc. , etc. ad infinitum.

These are old questions which have been kicked around for ages on the men’s clothing forums.

Does it really matter? Are we on track here? Really?

What is your verdict? And what is your advice to Mariano?

Now, we know that OH makes a 65 hour suit, benchmade - which I understand to mean a suit both cut, and sewn, either completely/largely, by hand, by one tailor. That’s Frank.

But what do we know about Mariano's other tailors vis a vis these matters? Very little.

So..., should Mariano broach this subject with them? And to what level of detail? And how important is it? Really.

Now hand padding a chest piece and collar are one thing in a coat, but what about the trousers?

Do we also want every stitch sewn by hand? Is that needed in a trouser....for shape or elasticity, perhaps ? What about the thread used?

OH admired the trousers made by the New York based English tailor Leonard Logsdail in an earlier post above. Those narrower trousers tailored for a big, hefty guy is a styling decision I have only seen in London and I agree that it works brilliantly for Logsdail client.
(Btw, there are a number of photos of suits made by Logsdail for this fellow on the net...the cut/design/silhouette choices Logsdail and his client made are very interesting...)

Is there one handmade stitch in those Logsdail trousers vs. the vaunted trouser makers of Napoli who virtually completely hand every last stitch??
One stitch?
Let’s ask him.

Maybe one. But I doubt it. But does it matter? To me, no signore, scusa.

It’s Logsdail’s cut that matters. And his judgement to make a narrower, rather than blousy, trouser for that particular large torso client. These styling decisions are what i want a good tailor to advise me about .... But hand stitching....?

Let’s get back to basics.

It’s all about the right silhouette for the individual client. Full stop.
Not the stuffing. Or hand work.

And later, the real matter of Style kicks in by which I mean, how does the client present, and wear his new fabulous bespoke clothing.

But that’s for later.

I don’t think that I would ask Caraceni Roma one question about their back room methods but rather put myself in their experienced, safe hands and leave it at that. I would trust them to make me a beautiful suit. The rest is of no interest to me.

Saluti miei cari amici.

[Screaminmarlon]

Tommy & Giulio Caraceni in Rome, 61B Via Campania, a 10 minute walk from the USA Embassy on Via Veneto, are the best tailors I have been to. This includes tailors in Naples, Milan, London, Hong Kong, and elsewhere. If I could easily travel to Rome regularly, they would certainly be my exclusive tailor

I don’t think that I would ask Caraceni Roma one question about their back room methods but rather put myself in their experienced, safe hands and leave it at that. I would trust them to make me a beautiful suit. The rest is of no interest to me.

Saluti miei cari amici.

+1
Absolutely

[belimad]

Now, we know that OH makes a 65 hour suit, benchmade - which I understand to mean a suit both cut, and sewn, either completely/largely, by hand, by one tailor. That’s Frank.

But what do we know about Mariano's other tailors vis a vis these matters? Very little.

So..., should Mariano broach this subject with them? And to what level of detail? And how important is it? Really.

Now hand padding a chest piece and collar are one thing in a coat, but what about the trousers?

Do we also want every stitch sewn by hand? Is that needed in a trouser....for shape or elasticity, perhaps ? What about the thread used?

Thanks UC, this is really interesting advise. I think, from my point of view, that the feedback that I'm getting here is not necessarily one that goes straight into every discussion I've had with the different tailors, but has definitely "permeated" them, allowing me to better understand styles, choices, and how they affect the way I look, what works and what doesn't.

I'm having more informed conversations, better understanding the feedback I get from experienced master tailors like Frank or John Kent, and How each will react to my suggestions (and politely, or not, disagree with me!), based on their own styles and experience.

Overall, the outcome (and is a work in progress) is that I now understand what choices I have, and which ones I like. This knowledge also helps me take new risks. For instance, this week I've asked Russell to start working on a double breasted suit, with pleated trousers!!! I've always been afraid of pleats - but lately, through conversations with Russell, Frank and Mr. Kent I've come to think that given my bulky middle figure it is an option worth exploring and understanding better.

My brother is a Sommelier, and one of the most knowledgeable people on Argentine and Spanish wine I know. This is such a gift! As I don't need to have all his knowledge - just his guidance, and a good mental note system to remember what wines I've enjoyed and which ones I haven't!

I think of the advise I'm getting here in a very similar way - a wonderful gift, but not necessarily one that requires me to carry all the knowledge with me

[belimad]

Btw, there are a number of photos of suits made by Logsdail for this fellow on the net...the cut/design/silhouette choices Logsdail and his client made are very interesting...

Interesting. Could you please send a couple of links?

[culverwood]

In answer to UC's question my attitude is very hands off. I expect my tailor to have forgotten more about tailoring than I will ever know and as long as I like the cloths she/he makes for me I will continue to go there. My input is just choosing the cloth and the basic style of the garment.

Very much the same way as I would deal with a sommelier, choosing the basic type of wine I want but relying on his/her experience to know what is best among the restaurant's stock.

I suspect Mariano will find quickly which, among the many tailors he has tried, he prefers and use him/her for most of his work.

[old henry]

Lenny offers an old school, handworked , Benchmade suit as you see in the link. He has one of the best pant makers in the USA working for him. Lenny makes the pattern.

[belimad]

Quick update:
- 2 set of barefoot-style (wide, no heel, super thin sole) shoes commissioned, style per CW’s suggestions. We’ll see what I get to come up with in 4-6 weeks
- went to pick up my suit at Langa in Madrid. Really like what Joaquin has done for me. Below is a quick picture I took during the fitting. I was not wearing braces so the trousers look messy. Will take a few more pictures over the weekend.
- got home last night and to my delight the first fitting of the actual suit from Frank was waiting for me! Still a work in progress (sorry no pics), and hopefully I get to meet him in NY mext week!

Will keep you posted.

[uppercase]

Greetings Mariano!
Exciting day for you!

Thanks for keeping us updated with photos and commentary.
I know that is time consuming and exhausting but hopefully worth it, as you’ll get some useful feedback from the LL members.

Your experiment with OH is very interesting: if I understand correctly, Frank cut you a suit without first meeting or measuring you and shipped you the basted suit to London from New York, which arrived today. Is that right?

Who took your measurements if you didn’t meet Frank?

I gather that you two were communicating via Skype, and that Frank got a visual of you through Skype and worked off of that.
He cut you a suit based on the measurements you sent him plus the visuals he observed through Skype...?
And that your first meeting with Frank will be in New York next week?
Is that basically correct ?

This is a unique methodology. I think that OH may be on to something here....

What interests me most is the choice of silhouettes that your various tailors will make for you. Bespoke is individual ofcourse but most all bespoke firms have one silhouette which they stick to and is their house DNA.

Among your selected tailors, Kent and Steed are recognized as making “soft” silhouettes - rounded, less padding in the shoulders and canvas in the chest, a looser, non-constricting, silhouette with lots of room to move in the arms and torso. The trousers of these schools: undefined, so no particular school cut to my knowledge.

Exemplars of the “ soft” school of tailoring: in England: Anderson&Sheppard and in Italy , the Neapolitan tailors. All round, with little padding and canvas in the coat.

“Soft” is the the opposite school and philosophy of the more angular, square shouldered, “ aggressive, thrusting, power” suits.

It also seems that each school of soft and hard attracts different personalities and attitudes; each has its adherents. But not only personality.... certain silhouettes just look better on people because of their physical build. A person needs to know which silhouette best suits him, to accentuate the positive, minimise the negative. A hard, objective look and assessment. A third party, a friend, a critical,” objective “ eye, can be helpful in this critical detail. But it is not actually a detail,,,, it is the basics. Which silhouette ??

The above is all generalizations. But yes, there are two schools of silhouettes : more , or less, padding. Round or angular. And then there is the vast middle ground of tailors in between ....

Personally, I think, that you could wear both “soft” and “hard” silhouettes equally well.

Both because of your physique plus the character/personality you project in your photos.

I am not sure of the DNA of a Frank Shattuck suit. From what I have observed from photos on the net, Frank is a maker of couture suits...a designer of suits, styled uniquely for each individual. Both soft and hard, and in between...., each creation appears unique, with no particular adherence to any “school”. To me, this is true bespoke tailoring, not what we find elsewhere...but that is a discussion for another time.

As for your Madrid suit, well, the photo is dark and distant, and I will defer to my more experienced friends here on LL for any useful comments on that particular suit.

I look forward to your future posts!

P.S. you can certainly carry off more adventurous colors and patterns in your choice of cloth as well as lighter colors than your current choices. Be adventurous!! You’ve got all the bona fides!!

Saludos!

http://thesavilerowtailor.co.uk/2014/07 ... -row-suit/

[belimad]

Thanks UC, very interesting comments!
Yes, that's how Frank and I went over this one - really interesting experiment!!! And I'm truly looking forward to meeting him in person in NY this week!

[Jimmy9lives]

Quick update:
- 2 set of barefoot-style (wide, no heel, super thin sole) shoes commissioned, style per CW’s suggestions. We’ll see what I get to come up with in 4-6 weeks
- went to pick up my suit at Langa in Madrid. Really like what Joaquin has done for me. Below is a quick picture I took during the fitting. I was not wearing braces so the trousers look messy. Will take a few more pictures over the weekend.
- got home last night and to my delight the first fitting of the actual suit from Frank was waiting for me! Still a work in progress (sorry no pics), and hopefully I get to meet him in NY mext week!

Will keep you posted.

Quite a bit of collar gaping?

[belimad]

Quite a bit of collar gaping?

I think it’s just the posture and a rushed picture. I’ll take better ones in the coming days.

[belimad]

Yet another update:
Frank and I have gotten to an iteration where we feel comfortable sharing some pics of this “skype project”

The suit is ridiculously comfortable - and I love the way it fits, particularly considering I’ve never physically been to his shop! We are going to do yet another iteration of further adjustments before I start wearing it.

[bond_and_beyond]

Looks great! Shoulder / neck looks particularly good. Congrats to you and Frank!

BB

[old henry]

Bond, thank you. It was ( is ) a joint effort with an elegant gentleman customer. I set out to make a regal man look regal , elegant and at ease and I am very happy with the result. It was a joint effort. 50/50
F

[alden]

Mariano,

The coat is soldered to your neck and falls effortlessly from there. The perfectly fit strong shoulder was not only made for you, it's made for you! Don't stray from that look.

Coat length is excellent as well. And the lapel width and notch height is spot on. Button point is exemplary and so is the opening of the front quarters...neither too much nor too little.

To imagine that this work was done via skype without a real in house fitting is impressive.

I expect you have learned quite a bit from this and so have we. Thanks for posting these pictures.

Carry on...I want to see a DB. Oh and what's it like to wear comfortable, great looking trousers? Nice.

Cheers

PS Well done Frank! A first try Capolavoro... by Skype nonetheless. Tip of the cap!